IDEA: Checking for uniques

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
iria
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by iria » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:02 am

Unfortunately, when 3 out of all the players who have uniques show their uniques to the mobs semi-regularly over the past 3 months, that doesn't save any work. Meaning I still have to spend 30 mins a month, every month, finding out if they're played. That's just a skewed amount of time spent for such a small group of players.
I thought the tracker mob was put in so you didn't have to check if the uniques were played or not? Just remove the uniques from the players who have not made use of the tracking mob and reload them whenever you have time. Oh also like Fermin's idea.

Theid
Posts: 123
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Theid » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:13 am

I thought it was established that without using the mob, the uniques would be removed from the character after a period of two weeks?

I agree with Fermin's idea as well as taking action on unaccounted for uniques. (Remove and Redistribute at a later date. (or not))

Elysia
Posts: 5446
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Elysia » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:37 am

All those ideas still require huge amounts of time spent tracking activity.

If ALL players had been using the unique checker mobol, the whole thing would've been reduced to <1 min, and the time spent following up on those who are inactive. As opposed to 30 mins per month doing it manually.

Players ask about "inactive uniques" all the time. Usually they're played in a different time zone. Paying wouldn't solve that issue.

The long and short of it is that only two imms have access to the relevant commands and I was doing this for the past 5 years, essentially spending 30 hours (30 mins * 12 months * 5 years) so people could have their precious uniques. The time spent vs the amount of players who enjoy something because of it is just totally skewed.

The craftables were made because uniques were problematic. This thread was made because uniques were problematic. The tracking mobol was uniques' last chance and players decided not to take it. I even bumped the thread early August to get players' attention to use it. They didn't. And that was that. If players won't meet me in the middle with regards to time spent, I sure as hell am not going to spend hours a year on this.

EDITed to add:
Uniques have been a problem issue in the game for at least a decade. That's why they were all made no-rent in the first place. Players wanted them back, but that required activity checks. There's a set amount of play time I checked every unique user against, every month and that took 30 mins a month.

For years now I've been trying to coax players into being "good citizens" in the sense of not needlessly complicating the unique checking. Some players still seem to think that logging for 15 seconds 3 times a day will "prove" they are active. In reality, all that did was create more entries for me to wade through and do the math for time spent logged on for. I have pointed that out repeatedly over the years, yet the practice persisted. The not using this mob is not an isolated incident of unique holders simply being unwilling to contribute to easier checkups, it's a pervasive pattern that has continued for years.

The decision to axe uniques was made a long time ago, but I tried to find a solution anyway because I know how much players care for uniques. The checker mobol was uniques' last chance. Had people been using the checker mob, a 30 min job would've taken a handful of minutes at most, which would've been acceptable. Players didn't take that chance. And at that point, it's toodles. I'm sure players will blame me in particular, but really, it's thanks to the people who had uniques the past 3 months and didn't check them in with the checker mob. If this had worked, we'd not be at this point.

Xin
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:10 am

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Xin » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:32 am

Admittedly I had silver sai for perhaps a week and did not use this mob. I knew of its existence but having not actually had a unique to play never bothered to investigate. I asked about it on globals and discord but no one provided any assistance. That said I only had it a week so I'm not sure if that warrants using the mob. Much like if the person that had it before me only had it a week and didn't use the mob and so on.

I agree though that it has been and probably always would continue to be a crappy issue. Players do want uniques in the game but at the same time players don't make a decent enough effort themselves to ensure they remain active and then they complain when they are not active. I guess the same could be said about people hoarding rares. In my experience such expensive pieces of text are far more fun played than rotting in storage and racking up innkeeper debt but for others they would rather cling to them as some kind of trophy or store of value.

I think it also reflects on certain player attitudes too. If I come into a rare I don't have a use for, I frequently give it away. If I can use it, I do so pretty well straight away and then some young Rig will complain I don't load well enough despite having a rare/unique!

Frey
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:58 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Frey » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:17 am

The other night I remember seeing an imm ask if there were any suggestions anyone had for improving the game, whether it was coding related or not.

Would it be possible to have a job that could be kicked off by an imm, that would reference a list of uniques, and run down the list, and for each one give the player name, and last time logged in? That would remove a manual check (currently done by Elysia) and quickly narrow down the actions needed to check up on the inactive ones.

The code itself would probably be pretty simple, if we're talking about coding changes.

Ragyn
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 am

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Ragyn » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:32 am

Issue seems in checking if the unique is actively being played and not just if it is logged on, as it seems some people log on for a minute then log off again.

Vampa
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Vampa » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:54 am

The issue Elysia has with it is tracking them. The issue I have with it is that I want only weapons to be uniques, I don't want multiple uniques per weapon class (with some reasonable exceptions, like Justice + Lamans) and I currently intend to let them naturally filter themselves out of game via unmendability, death traps, et al. Once they're gone, it'll be a matter of which we reload, and that'll be the named weapons (Laman, Hawkwing, Kirukan, etc) most likely.

If people didn't do things like I have X unique but I am not doing anything except sit inside for a few hours a day with it so that it's not in play because when other people have it they kill me with it and plenty of other scenarios that violate the entire premise of the item; or if they didn't all seem to gravitate towards the same black hole (whomever is the current powerhouse in PvP typically); or any other of a series of reasons that make it all nearly inviolate for those of means or ill intent none of us would care. I do, however, and I'd like to clear one subject of persistent contention for players and staff alike so there's no solution you can proffer currently, no matter how perfect it may seem that I am currently interested in. We're going to have a naturalized reboot of the uniques system, and those that get reloaded will all be eversharp weapons of a rarity that there will be no need to track them.

Jaster
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Jaster » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Cookie meet cutter :twisted:

On a serious note it was all quite stupid. Spend 30-45 min of your playtime to do xyz to prove you are playing and then rent because you exhausted your playtime proving you play. That sounded really enticing. Likewise, it was stupid that staff had to spend time checking all this madness of items over people who know where they are. If not it could be a post saying you have xxx time to report you have your uniques or they will be stripped from you. People should simple say “I have it!” The game has more dimensions and goals set when there is unique items to acquire, secure, or compete for/with. As we continue our current road you will see more dropping of everyone’s dung and more towards the death match mode of not caring because it requires little Effort or the reward was rabbit poop. Anyways, I’ll toss all the uniques in a dt and you can start fresh with tarnished shortswords. Fast times at Wotmud High.

Reyne
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by Reyne » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:08 pm

Likewise, it was stupid that staff had to spend time checking all this madness of items over people who know where they are. If not it could be a post saying you have xxx time to report you have your uniques or they will be stripped from you. People should simple say “I have it!”
We'd need some code for this though somehow. I see how it is a nightmare on the imm's part. It seems simple to just say "announce you have it within 3 days or lose it" but that means they have to constantly check to see when an item switched hands, if said person made their announcement post, etc. Constant "AHH but I had to go on vacation right after I got it and, and, and, .... " Massive pain in the butt. Some people will have legitimate situations where they just can't make the announcement in time and that will suck for them, too.

Maybe if they just had a timer on them that poof'd them (thieves come and steal it when you are rented) 72 hours after they they dropped and they just randomly drop on very low % from a group of smobs. That way just no one has them at all 3 days after they are issued, and there can be an updated list on the imm side to see which uniques are currently issued or not at a glance (say when drops from a smob the game registers that, checks the 'Issued' box, after 3 days the timer poofs it and it gets checked 'Not issued.') More PK around those mobs as there is now more incentive to smob the uniques into play. Coding, obviously.
The game has more dimensions and goals set when there is unique items to acquire, secure, or compete for/with.
This is true but at the same time so is this:
or if they didn't all seem to gravitate towards the same black hole (whomever is the current powerhouse in PvP typically)
Like I just literally do not care that uniques are going away because I've never really had my hands on one, probably can't kill the people who do, and all it really means for me is less odds of getting exploded to pieces in a couple rounds by the already powerhouse characters who wield them.
Anyways, I’ll toss all the uniques in a dt and you can start fresh with tarnished shortswords. Fast times at Wotmud High.
This honestly sounds fine to me. I think in general there are too many people running around with essentially best in slot gear which means stat differences are a much bigger deal which kind of blows. There's no one running around in mid or low tier sets unless just as a joke which is a shame really. A good like 75-80% of the items that exist probably get used less than 10% of the time.

I feel like you should be able to show up in ~okay~ gear and still be able to contribute to a fight *without* being some super experienced PvPer with a decade under their belt (I'm assuming we want new people playing the game, too). And if someone is there with a pair of jcuffs, an egown, etc. then fine but they'd be more likely to get targeted due to the rarer nature of what they are using.

(Side note: I liked the idea floated in Discord the other day about different types of armor being better against different things (slashing, crushing, piercing) because there'd actually be a reason to use different items. It would be interesting, for example, if say shining plate was 10% damage mitigation against weaves whereas Murgoz was best against all physical damage except it took 10% extra from weaves or whatever. Would let people create different builds around different pieces of gear and *that* is how you eliminate cookie cutter. Not just by sheer volume of items available, esp when there is a clear progression of worst to best and everyone more or less just sticks to the best in slot item).

e: Also from what I've seen these items just cause more strife than anything else. Holy moly the amount of times I've seen people angry/sad/complaining/ranting because they lost a unique to something dumb or because the person who they won it from got angry and got a gank group together to hound that player constantly until they get "their" unique back or whatever other nonsense.

iria
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: IDEA: Checking for uniques

Post by iria » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:42 pm

I feel like you should be able to show up in ~okay~ gear and still be able to contribute to a fight *without* being some super experienced PvPer with a decade under their belt (I'm assuming we want new people playing the game, too). And if someone is there with a pair of jcuffs, an egown, etc. then fine but they'd be more likely to get targeted due to the rarer nature of what they are using.

This was how it used to be like a decade ago, you knew if you had top tier stuff on you'd get targetted and people would join in PK with just some chainmail, but I think that was more due to the amount of people we had. To be honest having a server wide eq cleanse probably wouldn't be a bad thing, adjust smobs a bit, and top tier trinkets would be rare again, trading would pick up again and not just be reserved for rares etc.

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