Warrants without an in character reason.

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Maegon
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:15 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Maegon » Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:52 pm

Game Mechanics.

People get hung up on IC reasoning for some of the silliest things when it comes to game mechanics. In "real life", people wouldn't have access to full databases of army membership. People could go incognito/wear disguises/use a different name, etc. Someone decided this was the simplest method of removing warrant/pardon red tape and/or solving aggro issues.

No reason to wind yourself up over some imaginary injustice.

Joolis
Posts: 294
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:26 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Joolis » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:21 pm

I have no problems with this. As Razhak said, you are an invading army to LS. Are you expecting to just prance around Randland with no repercussions on easy mode? You could be the nicest guy/gal and have committed no crimes, but you are still the enemy. Do you hear any DS complaining that they can't walk through LS/SS cities without being attacked? Can a LS player walk into Falme and just walk around for fun while an SS is there? I honestly see no difference.

This is a choice you make when you swear the Oaths.

Octavio
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:09 pm

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Octavio » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:32 pm

An LS player CAN walk around Falme with absolutely zero repercussions until they attack a Seanchan within the city. Then there are issues because you get warranted.

Tiani
Posts: 49
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:52 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Tiani » Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:21 pm

Razhak wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:39 am
You are an invading army hell-bent on destroying everything the Tower stands for, and enslaving all channelers with the a'dam..

I dont see the real wrongdoing here with a Tower clanned warranting you
Octavio wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:17 am
...and I cannot name one Seanchan player who has done so either.

This needs to be changed.
I just would like to point out that the OP is a Tower member who was warranted by a Seanchan. :oops:
Also, I could name at least one Seanchan who has very recently sat in wherever and warranted WT members as they logged on if they didn't already have one, but I won't.

Octavio
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:09 pm

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Octavio » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:06 pm

Octavio wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:42 pm
Well, A) two wrongs don't make a rights. Learned that in the kindergarden sandbox. Just because you CAN warrant someone based off the WHO list doesn't mean it's right.

Torag
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:17 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Torag » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:08 pm

Octavio wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:06 pm
Octavio wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 1:42 pm
Well, A) two wrongs don't make a rights. Learned that in the kindergarden sandbox. Just because you CAN warrant someone based off the WHO list doesn't mean it's right.
Nope but is currently acceptable, petition imms if you aren't happy with it.

The way i look at it, ss are still purple, you are still the bad guys regardless of the "amalgamation" of your race back into humans. If ya wanna swear the oaths, live with the consequences of being invaders ?!

Yeri
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 4:26 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Yeri » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:36 am

To Darlanyu: Sorry, but yes, this is permitted. This is rule #6 of the warranting rules, found in the big book o' WoTMUD rules at http://wotmod.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=300.
6. Subject to your clan's policies, blanket warrants ARE permitted. Male channelers and dark friends are to be warranted at will.
In other words, it's permitted to warrant you entirely based on clan affiliation without having ever interacted with you.

---

My own viewpoint: I think blanket warrants are ridiculous and should never have been allowed back in, but I think I lost this fight. While I agree that, in many cases, people from specific opposing clans (Tower/CoL, Tower/SS, etc) will engage in sameside PK and be threats to one another, I think that this policy removes a lot of the nuance that specific characters have added to the conflict. For instance, for many years Aira was not Tower warranted, despite being a high-ranking CoL. She played her character like a CoL, but she didn't attack Tower characters and (rightfully) was never warranted or hunted. This should be a possibility for people to pursue, and it isn't one when blanket warrants are issued that treat every character of a clan the same way, regardless of how they actually act.

Following from the above, warranting entire sides (SS/LS is a great example) removes a lot of the potential for interesting dialogue and growth in how the mud does politics. Warranting someone means they can't group with you, which means a lot of the IC ways to progress relationships - smobbing, PK, other informal but IC things - aren't possible, and limits you to adversarial relationships. Which means things pretty much never change.

Aira
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Aira » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:25 am

Yeri wrote:
Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:36 am
For instance, for many years Aira was not Tower warranted, despite being a high-ranking CoL. She played her character like a CoL, but she didn't attack Tower characters and (rightfully) was never warranted or hunted.
Except for the two times I got unjustly warranted, one for being attacked even, and had to take it all the way up to a 104 to appeal after waiting 6+ weeks and being ignored by the Blue Ajah.

Reyne
Posts: 962
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Reyne » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:24 am

I don't know what the impetus was for allowing blanket warrants on the imm level - I suspect not having to police such a grey area as "ahh but how did they KNOW I was SS?" has a bit to do with it. I can tell you that it is a much appreciated tool to help novices/Accepted not get constantly attacked by incognito people.

I can also tell you that a big reason the Tower decided to blanket warrant CoL/HoL was in deliberate attempt to get the more reasonable members of those organizations to rein in the more wildly aggressive ones. We've been open to negotiation on this point but as far as I can tell CoL/HoL kind of imploded activity-wise and no one ever contacted us to negotiate anything.

Don't know why Tower would be grouping with SS or CoL anyway. SS want to enslave us. Not sure what middle ground there is to be found there. Pretty sure SS will be purple again regardless?

(ooc - note here also that when Tower DID group with CoL or SS, we got constantly harangued over bad RP to the point that the Hall had to step in and say "stop grouping with them." So it's more than just the warrants at play regarding that.)

Following from the above, warranting entire sides (SS/LS is a great example) removes a lot of the potential for interesting dialogue and growth in how the mud does politics. Warranting someone means they can't group with you, which means a lot of the IC ways to progress relationships - smobbing, PK, other informal but IC things - aren't possible, and limits you to adversarial relationships. Which means things pretty much never change.
We're talking about organizations that either want to enslave us all and keep us as pets, or an organization that believes we're evil witches, is not shy about saying so, and has attacked Tar Valon constantly.

Don't know what could change with SS. With CoL/HoL, we're open to politicking on an organizational level. On an individual level, a couple nice CoL in the ranks doesn't make up for the fact that we were getting constant attacks and taunts* for weeks/months.

* (ooc - frankly, borderline abusive ones too. I never cared myself but I talked to more than a couple upset players about it)
An LS player CAN walk around Falme with absolutely zero repercussions until they attack a Seanchan within the city. Then there are issues because you get warranted.
As can any Oathsworn walk around Tar Valon with zero repercussions. Note here also that SS players have killed unclanned and unwarranted LS characters because "oathbreakers" before. I have an alt that has happened to. They're an invading army *shrug*
Except for the two times I got unjustly warranted, one for being attacked even, and had to take it all the way up to a 104 to appeal after waiting 6+ weeks and being ignored by the Blue Ajah.
Sorry about this. I suspect it was during a period of inactivity for the Blue, though, and not a purposeful snub.

Octavio
Posts: 380
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:09 pm

Re: Warrants without an in character reason.

Post by Octavio » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:28 am

Again, and not to belabor the point, warranting Seanchan, CoL, the tinker down the road who stole your 2 coppers is 100% perfectly acceptable as long as you see them, they attack you, they drawled the wrong way in front of you...whatever it takes. Warranting off of the WHO list, with zero interaction of the players should not be acceptable no matter who the player getting warranted is. Both Seanchan, CoL, OR the tinker down the road who stole someone else's 2 coppers.

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