One Year of Trump

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Arkan
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Wed May 23, 2018 5:06 pm

CA also has swaths that are significantly one or the other and you could easily go through life not meeting the other very often, even ignoring career and education path limitations which you clearly did.

Jestin
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:15 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Jestin » Wed May 23, 2018 7:11 pm

I think we should all go out of our way to make some real friendships with people that do not share your political or even social views. I have tried to do that, and in some cases succeeded. Unbelievable learning experiences have resulted. Not to mention that life is less boring when you can have actual disagreements and discussions with people instead of everyone just sitting around confirming what each other think.

Rig
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Rig » Wed May 23, 2018 8:00 pm

I apart from my attempts to derail and troll this thread, I agree with Lykan. Even if this means I'm the redneck racist, whom I shall clarify that is white, Trump Supporter that Firimei believes I am.

Torag
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:17 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Torag » Wed May 23, 2018 10:12 pm

Echo chambering yourself and making petty and insulting remarks about/to people who don't share your particular political disposition is a fantastic way to have constructive discussions.

It will certainly make people want listen to you and not dismiss you as a fuckwit..... yep.

Maegon
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:15 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Maegon » Wed May 23, 2018 10:58 pm

Jestin wrote:I think we should all go out of our way to make some real friendships with people that do not share your political or even social views. I have tried to do that, and in some cases succeeded. Unbelievable learning experiences have resulted. Not to mention that life is less boring when you can have actual disagreements and discussions with people instead of everyone just sitting around confirming what each other think.


To be honest, this doesn't mean much. I'm still friends with plenty of people, and family members, from Texas, who vehemently disagree with my political viewpoint. I'm not learning anything from them, and they aren't learning anything from me. We disagree on every fundamental level, including the disregard of facts on multiple occasions. Should we get along as people still? Yeah, of course, but this belief that everyone resounds in their own bubble isn't correct, and having available view points outside your own doesn't breed understanding. It's probably not anymore correct than the belief that you're either for banning all guns or complete 2nd amendment everyone gets guns.

Lykan wrote:I just don't really understand how/why we got to such an "us vs them" mentality - and no, don't blame Trump. I'm a registered republican and hate the guy but this definitely isnt anything new that you can pin on him. I guess its gotten worse, but it definitely didn't begin from him.


I'm not surprised by this mentality, because it depends on results. Let's take the extreme view of only heterosexual marriage vs allowing gay marriage. It might progress to society as state's rights, then become unalienable rights. However, those people that vehemently believe gay marriage is wrong will become more and more opposed to the idea as it gains traction. Those in favor of allowing gay marriage will become more and more vocal as it becomes more widely accepted. Why would I accept a compromise when the trend clearly favors progression? Why would I accept a compromise when we've clearly compromised too far?

Both the democratic and republican party will need to re-identify themselves in the future. It won't be about equal rights or Christianity, but actual fiscal policy. Then we can have an actual discussion and debate on useful things.

Maghus
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:54 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Maghus » Thu May 24, 2018 12:01 am

Trump will be reelected by winning all 49 states.

isabel
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby isabel » Thu May 24, 2018 7:58 am

" If you believe morality is impossible without God, you have a strong disincentive to become an atheist. Even after you've realized which way the evidence points, you'll activate every possible defense mechanism for your religious beliefs. If all the defense mechanisms fail, you'll take God on utter faith or just believe in belief, rather than surrender to the unbearable position of an immoral universe.

The correct procedure for dealing with such a person, Eliezer suggests, isn't to show them yet another reason why God doesn't exist. They'll just reject it along with all the others. The correct procedure is to convince them, on a gut level, that morality is possible even in a godless universe. When disbelief in God is no longer so terrifying, people won't fight it quite so hard and may even deconvert themselves."

From https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6yTShbT ... n-argument

One of the most common disagreements I've seen people have is around feminism -I have a really good friend (american, republican, christian, conservative - everything I'm not!) who genuinely thought that feminism meant something other than equality for women (which for him was a no-brainer). I tried to tell him that - well that makes you a feminist, if you think women should have equal rights as men, and he kept thinking it was more complicated than that :roll: When he finally googled it, and looked up an actual definition, he realised I was right! :P But what was interesting was that even though he should have trusted my definition of it (just as I trusted his that Christianity is about compassion etc and not about hating against people) there was some investment in hanging on to that other idea.

Anyway :p

keim
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:45 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby keim » Thu May 24, 2018 8:58 am

doubt hes feminist, probably egalitarian

Vaen
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:20 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Vaen » Thu May 24, 2018 10:08 am

Jestin wrote:I think we should all go out of our way to make some real friendships with people that do not share your political or even social views. I have tried to do that, and in some cases succeeded. Unbelievable learning experiences have resulted. Not to mention that life is less boring when you can have actual disagreements and discussions with people instead of everyone just sitting around confirming what each other think.


I feel like this is the kind of thing people say when their formative years weren't spent somewhere that was particularly challenging to their developing worldview. My experience isn't quite the same as Maegon's, but you need a baseline level of reasonableness for anything productive. I know plenty of former Romney and McCain campaign staffers, who satisfy that baseline, but that's the type of shit that's likely to get you called a RINO nowadays. Even if you're pretty conservative. Speaking of RINOs...

Lykan wrote:I just don't really understand how/why we got to such an "us vs them" mentality - and no, don't blame Trump. I'm a registered republican and hate the guy but this definitely isnt anything new that you can pin on him. I guess its gotten worse, but it definitely didn't begin from him.


That's a probably because the things you probably hate about Trump are not anything new either and didn't begin with him, but it's tougher to ignore a bullhorn than a dog-whistle.


Maegon wrote:Both the democratic and republican party will need to re-identify themselves in the future. It won't be about equal rights or Christianity, but actual fiscal policy. Then we can have an actual discussion and debate on useful things.


This is already happening. After Romney lost in 2012, the Republican Party did some soul searching and came up with an actually impressive strategy to lose some of their more extreme social positions to win elections. That was not what happened. It was thoroughly derailed by Trump's nationalism and propensity to give lip service to every position on every issue, whether it's completely contradictory or not. The Democrats are finally adapting to this and re-identifying themselves from the party aiming at the center to a party that's actually tugging towards the left and focusing more on people that are not traditional voting blocs, rather than hoping for crossovers. Third way Democrats are pretty much gone.

Lykan
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Lykan » Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 am

That's fair, Arkan. I'm somewhat opposite, having graduate degree/licensure in business and working at a firm that is overwhelmingly white, conservative men (like me...and Rig). I also think whoever said that theyre probably there but dont want to admit theyre the minority party is probably right. The vast majority of my friends/family are somewhere on the conservative spectrum, most far enough left to avoid the Klan Rallies. That's why I keep Vaen around so he can remind me that not all of you are just sitting around in armchairs talking about how smart you are and collecting entitlements from taxpayers :) Its easy to forget that most of us agree on most things. In all seriousness, what bothers me the most is just that all of my lib friends move further left and all of my conserv friends further right. Its fucking lonely when everyone else is sitting on a pole. Reminds me of college, except a lot cheaper.

Yes, obviously having friends from opposing views doesnt suddenly mean we're all going to change to agree on everything overnight. But it certainly couldnt hurt and most importantly, it would stop people assuming all Trump fans live in a trailer and have 4 teeth and all liberals want to live off the government and give everyone participation trophies.


Vaen wrote:
Lykan wrote:I just don't really understand how/why we got to such an "us vs them" mentality - and no, don't blame Trump. I'm a registered republican and hate the guy but this definitely isnt anything new that you can pin on him. I guess its gotten worse, but it definitely didn't begin from him.


That's a probably because the things you probably hate about Trump are not anything new either and didn't begin with him, but it's tougher to ignore a bullhorn than a dog-whistle.


Not if you're a dog.


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