One Year of Trump

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Jaster
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Jaster » Sat May 26, 2018 1:11 pm

As anticipated, you took everything I said literally. You must haven take literal comprehension 101 to gain you 3 credits towards your degree.
Arkan wrote:If degrees are meaningless, then don't go to a doctor.

I never said degrees are meaningless. I would think that someone as 'highly educated' with a degree as yourself would be able to understand that I meant they were not the only proof of an education or the end game defining you as "highly educated".

Arkan wrote: You argue that a doctor has no more intelligence than anyone else unless he/she is employed as a doctor.

I never argued that a doctor had no more intelligence than anyone else. I argued that you would be educated in your field of study and that you would need to be able to perform your field of study successfully. I was speaking in more general terms. However, if you want to choose a doctor as an example I would not say a doctor is highly educated with his degree as a doctor if he performs his duties and misdiagnoses everyone.

Arkan wrote: There are a lot of kinds of idiots out there, including some doctors, but if you're pretending that you're smarter than them just because you're hypothetically an auto mechanic, then you're about as stupid as people come. FYI, being an auto mechanic is pretty easy.

I believe this is the major reading fail yet again. You are trying to define a hierarchy of what is "highly educated". I never once said that an auto mechanic is smarter than a doctor. I never quite ranked professions. In regards to a field of study, different people would be deemed educated, highly educated, and a genius. To deny acknowledging someone else being highly educated in other fields without a piece of paper is ignorant. And as easy as you think being an auto mechanic is, there is a tremendous amount of successful auto mechanics lacking in the country. Just "being" something is easy for however short or long it may last. That can go for any career.

Arkan wrote: No a piece of paper doesn't make you smarter, but the effort to get it actually does. You can be smart without that piece of paper, but you would also be smarter if you also get that piece of paper.

You really think so? I would rephrase that to at least discretionary effort. Paying to achieve a piece of paper does not also make you smarter. The information you learn in school can be acquired outside of it and studied and perfected without stepping foot on a campus. However, there are some fields where you may need to get onto a campus to put the learnings into practice or utilize equipment to demonstrate the knowledge(So a college might be necessary). Some fields may seriously require you have the piece of paper, while others just state they do. Using myself as an example: My experience in the field of Restaurant Hospitality Management without a paper will trump an individual with a piece of paper from the best school. Proven success, experience, and execution is more tangible evidence to an employer than the degree saying you learned how to do it. This goes for many fields. It is very sad seeing those with degrees struggle trying to find a job. It was disheartening watching my brother interview and turn down entry level positions to get your foot in the door and prove what you learned because he was told and believed he should get a high ranking, highly paid position from the start.

Arkan wrote:Trump actually keeps trying to cut cancer funding, so stop trying that stupid argument that he might cure cancer and we'd hate him. We hate him because WE are trying to cure cancer and he is trying to stop us. Trump didn't call MS13 animals until he decided to do damage control later after his rant.
I think both statements have to do with your literal comprehension. I was not at all serious in the comment about trump curing cancer. It was a metophor for how the left and right will always argue the opposite. As for the MS13 comment, the reporter lastly questioned him in regards to MS13 and he responded using the term animals in his repsonse. There is no way to know his motive other than your opinion of it. So when he "damage controled", he in reality just reinforced what he stated the first time in non negiotable layman's terms.

Razhak
Posts: 600
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Razhak » Sat May 26, 2018 2:00 pm

I am smarter then all of you.

I have a piece of paper proving that!

Arkan
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Sat May 26, 2018 2:10 pm

The information can be achieved other ways, but we sure as hell don't see many Conservatives working to achieve education in those ways either. The proof is in the policy. You're the ones who attacked Obama for attempting peace talks, yet praised Trump for achieving them before he even had any. You're the ones who think tax breaks for the rich benefit everyone else. You're the ones who chanted "lock her up" yet support Trump's use of an unsecured phone and his administration's use of private email servers.

"With your degree, it may help you achieve success in your field, but it does not make or rank you any smarter/more educated than the person next to you in totality." It literally ranks you as more educated. If you're more educated, you're smarter than you would be if you were not educated. And rarely do people put any moderate amount of effort in self-education, so it's not like we have an undercount of Trump voters that are highly educated. Having a degree in Restaurant Hospitality Management AND experience should be better than nothing but experience because an education is more than how to do a spreadsheet and turn on the lights. Furthermore, education shouldn't be consider just training in the one thing. Degrees typically have requirements outside of the core major. Your party's most hated degree, the BA, gives a well-rounded education that is applicable in many parts of life. But yall can't understand that concept.

I took you literally, because it was a point that was literally wrong. You argue that we simply hate Trump and that is that. No, we actually have definable policy issues, like funding public education, protecting the environment, health care, funding science research, and keeping Iran from deciding to build nukes. We also hate that he treats everyone like shit. So yes, fuck that guy. You guys hated Obama blindly. Birthers? Blind hate. Tan suit? Blind hate. Claiming the Chief Justice's faux pas kept Obama from being president? Blind hate. Saying Obama shouldn't talk to Iran/NK? Blind hate. Fuck dudes, your Congressional delegation's goal during the Obama presidency was anti-compromise. Remember nothing more important than making Obama a 1-term president? Bind hate. And you know what? We're fucking tired of it. So when you come along and make noises about compromise and middle ground, I say fuck that bullshit. Your party doesn't want compromise at all. Who made the record number of filibusters? Republicans, multiple times. You guys rejected your own moderates long ago. We actually still have a lot. Trump rejects your own moderates.

Also, I am quite the outdoorsman, so no need to make assumptions that because I have advanced degrees I don't have more than my share of muscles, scars, and years of experience in the wild. Restaurant Hospitality is the froufrou career.

Even with the context of the Trump animals quote, it looks like he's just talking about illegal immigrants in general. Given what he has said in the past, he probably thinks all illegal immigrants are MS-13, which explains the quote better. If he was talking about MS-13 specifically, he should have addressed issues specific to them, which of course would be great policy. Unfortunately, Trump does not understand policy.

Jestin
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:15 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Jestin » Sat May 26, 2018 2:18 pm

So where do we go from here Arkan? Do you have any solutions or do you just want to recite problems?

Do you really believe that about half of the population of the US is going to one day just be like "you're right guys! we have seen the light! we agree and we will work with you now?"

Until that day comes maybe the only productive way forward is to try harder to understand each other's viewpoints and try to come to some sort of compromise?

Or should we just get farther and farther apart, continue to lose respect for one another, until the hate on both sides is impossible to reconcile and we just destroy everything?

Roberto
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Roberto » Sat May 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Razhak wrote:I am smarter then all of you.

I have a piece of paper proving that!


My piece of paper disagrees.

Aishana
Posts: 248
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Aishana » Sat May 26, 2018 2:35 pm

Jestin wrote:So where do we go from here Arkan? Do you have any solutions or do you just want to recite problems?

Do you really believe that about half of the population of the US is going to one day just be like "you're right guys! we have seen the light! we agree and we will work with you now?"

Until that day comes maybe the only productive way forward is to try harder to understand each other's viewpoints and try to come to some sort of compromise?

Or should we just get farther and farther apart, continue to lose respect for one another, until the hate on both sides is impossible to reconcile and we just destroy everything?


Nah they're going to double down on "we're better educated/smarter than you, and anyone who disagrees with us is an obvious racist bigot/idiot/monster"

Arkan
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Sat May 26, 2018 2:39 pm

I see no point in trying, Jestin. I think the decline of America is at hand. If it breaks up, that might be for the best. Smaller governments typically have more trust from citizens anyways, even when they shouldn't. And we would have fewer of the Trumpsters holding us back, trying to relive the 1950s (perhaps 1850s). Of course, I'd feel bad for those caught in the Trump lands losing their freedom of speech and religion and economic mobility. Trump virtually never apologizes, and when he does, it's an attack. And his supporters never apologize. We tried, but compromise comes from our end even when we don't have to, and it results in shittier policy. Since the never compromise party never changes that policy, I'm increasingly ok with adopting that policy as well. At least then we can have more good laws passed and prevent more bad ones.

PS. Aishana's inferiority complex is awesome.

Arkan
Posts: 233
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Sat May 26, 2018 2:45 pm

Jestin. if a Supreme Court justice dies or retires next year and Dems have the Senate, should they let Trump pick a replacement? Clearly "no" seems to be the answer. Was just thinking this was a good example to use of where they have brought us.

Joolis
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:26 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Joolis » Sat May 26, 2018 2:55 pm

This thread is cancer.

Benito
Posts: 226
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:41 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Benito » Sat May 26, 2018 2:56 pm

I actually agree with Jaster on some of his points about expert knowledge and education extending beyond academia. But even agreeing with what he's saying still means kicking the can down the road in regards to two different problems.

1. Expertise in one area is taken as proof of expertise in a separate area. As Enok pointed out, conservatives aren't actually anti-elite in any way, they're just skeptical of certain forms of elitism while totally trusting in others. For instance they tend to trust religious authorities and successful business owners in the realm of politics and policy. But running a business successfully and being rich doesn't mean you know anything about how a government should be run. For the last 150 years, business owners have claimed they won't be able to turn a profit if the work day drops below 12 hours, if the minimum raise is waged, and so on and so on.

2. It doesn't explain the basic split that Arkan is getting at in regards to left/right presence in academia and higher education. The typical explanation is Aishana's, which has to do with some sort of academic deep-state systematically shutting out disagreement. Among other things, this fails to explain the existence of dissensus in every academic field, and the possibilities that exist in those fields for experimentation, novelty, and disagreement. The engine of research and publication is disagreement, not consensus. Primarily, this explanation is seized on because the alternative is asking the more uncomfortable question: why is it that the majority of people studying X topic in depth arrive at conclusions that support a broadly leftist view of reality?


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