One Year of Trump

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Vilac
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Vilac » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:56 am

Ashlee wrote:
Vilac wrote:
Enok wrote:GOP holds all branches of government. Why do you blame democrats for problems you could solve on your own?


Because just “holding” branches of government doesnt mean you can solve problems. Anyone with half a brain knows that. But, since you want to play that game, why didn’t the Democrats do it when they had full control since they are so upset with it?


Drop the Fox News talking points. Democrats can’t do anything in Congreess when the Republican leadership refuses to include them in drafting legislation.


Not sure what Fox News talking point you are talking about since this was a Enok/Vilac question & answer. However, since you chimed in, I believe you are having a reading fail. Enok asked me why Republicans simply don’t use their majority of the branches of government they operate to fix some of the laws in question. I asked him why the democrats did not do the same when they had control under Obama. We did not address or ask why each party did not ask/let the other party to participate in drafting legislation yet.

Arkan
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:02 am

Obama invited Republican leadership over to sit down and work on health care. They still refused to participate. Then there were months of committee and floor debate and the Republican taking point is still that they were not allowed to participate. Compare this to the Republican bills that skipped the entire legislative process and had no invites to participate. Didn't even Rand Paul famously wander around one of the office buildings looking for the bill they were supposed to vote on and yet no one had a copy, much less read it?

Enok
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Enok » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:03 am

Vilac wrote:
Enok wrote:GOP holds all branches of government. Why do you blame democrats for problems you could solve on your own?


Because just “holding” branches of government doesnt mean you can solve problems. Anyone with half a brain knows that. But, since you want to play that game, why didn’t the Democrats do it when they had full control since they are so upset with it?


Sorry I wasnt clear enough. You hold ALL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT. What more do you need?

Treach
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:23 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Treach » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:09 am

The whole us vs them, 2 party system and pick a side is a huge problem. I seriously think that the citizens of America should stop picking a side. Don't tell people who you are voting for. Stop grouping up on the other side and trying to destroy their agenda. The parties should clearly lay out what they plan to do and the people should vote based on the current policies. Not be life long members of one side blindly defending it, and say it is the other side doing this to us. People will behave in groups in ways they never would alone.

Yea what she said was terrible but I haven't seen anyone cheering her for it. I believe people should have the right to peacefully protest, but deliberate harassment is going to far.

But instead of changing the topic what was your position on Trump and SHS using their official government accounts to call out a restaurant? What do you think Trump would say if his craziest supporters vandalized that restaurant?

Lykan
Posts: 275
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:14 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Lykan » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:10 am

This thread continues to deliver.

Introspectively, it is pretty funny how I am still amazed at both sides' constant inability to have any semblance of a discussion without immediately resorting to "yeah my guy is prolly a douche, but your party did THIS OMGAHD!!!" It is the central theme in virtually every political conversation now, both public and private. 0 accountability, 0 productivity, just nonstop jiggery pokery and hate-mongering from top-down while ignoring the actual issues.

Wtf cares what Obama did? Stop using it to excuse Trump's idiocy, the same way Obama-zealots used Bush's idiocy every time someone said anything bad about Obama (and now use Trump instead of Bush).

"With malice toward none, with charity for all..."

Hi Treach!

Vilac
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Vilac » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:26 am

I don’t believe she should have used her govt Twitter account to say she was kicked out of the restaurant. Not that it would have stopped the event from spreading on social media anyways. Regardless, the mobs for each side would go into attack mode over it when they found out. It’s just easier in today’s era than reading it days later in a paper( If you read the paper ). On the other end of the spectrum we start walking a fine line of refuting service based off of stereotypes or personal feelings. Making the call if someone is intoxicated past a legal limit or actually berating your staff is one thing. But refusing to serve someone based on affiliation is another thing. We already were down that road with race, and still battle it in some cases. We cannot move forward and make progress if we allow and cheer for regression of ethics.

Edit: To be clear, I say it’s a fine line to cross. You as a business have the right to refuse service, however it will have its ups/downs with any decision you make. I don’t think this was a smart business decision. It may feel good morally based off your political views and it might make your staff feel great, but it may be bad for business. Every action has a reaction and or consequence.

Reyne
Posts: 260
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Reyne » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:00 am

Bakery refuses to make cake for jovial, like Father Christmas people:

“In this case and others, the Department of Justice will continue to vigorously defend the free speech and religious freedom First Amendment rights,” Sanders said.

Restaurant refuses service to individual member of the administration:

All the tears.


Treach is right - a lot of people just blindly support 'their team' and that's that whether D or R or whatever.

But refusing to serve someone based on affiliation is another thing. We already were down that road with race, and still battle it in some cases.


I get what you're saying but at the same time "member of the president's administration" isn't an underprivileged group and private businesses have always been able to refuse service to individuals for pretty much any reason that isn't discrimination against a protected class. She freely chose to be part of Trump's team.

It's kind of just a non-issue being blown up for no real good reason other than apparently Sanders is upset about it personally.

It may feel good morally based off your political views and it might make your staff feel great, but it may be bad for business.


Eh so what though. Profits/business shouldn't be the end all be all of everything.

Vilac
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Vilac » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:28 am

Reyne wrote:Bakery refuses to make cake for jovial, like Father Christmas people:

“In this case and others, the Department of Justice will continue to vigorously defend the free speech and religious freedom First Amendment rights,” Sanders said.

Restaurant refuses service to individual member of the administration:

All the tears.


Treach is right - a lot of people just blindly support 'their team' and that's that whether D or R or whatever.

But refusing to serve someone based on affiliation is another thing. We already were down that road with race, and still battle it in some cases.


I get what you're saying but at the same time "member of the president's administration" isn't an underprivileged group and private businesses have always been able to refuse service to individuals for pretty much any reason that isn't discrimination against a protected class. She freely chose to be part of Trump's team.

It's kind of just a non-issue being blown up for no real good reason other than apparently Sanders is upset about it personally.

It may feel good morally based off your political views and it might make your staff feel great, but it may be bad for business.


Eh so what though. Profits/business shouldn't be the end all be all of everything.


The difference with the baker is that they didn’t refuse service to them except for one type of item that would go against their religious beliefs of marriage. They offered service to bake any other cake for other events and offered to help find them bakers that could make them the wedding cake they desired. The decision made to side with the baker on this one has to do with religious freedoms.

And I never said what the restaurant did was against the law. Look, I run a restaurant so I understand this one pretty well. I just believe it’s a fine line taking the right to refuse service to this level. Secondly, I’m not up in arms about it and could agree it’s not all about the profits at times. But apparently everyone is upset because the restaurant is taking significant heat over their decision. The owner had to have known it would have a split reaction with pros and cons which judging by her saying she would do it again, looks to be fine with it. The name and shame game works both ways I guess. I just don’t believe in congresswoman Maxine saying it’s ok to go out of your way to harass or imply harassing people at their houses, kids schools, personal time and space is civil or appropriate. Peaceful protest is ok. Targeting and harassment is not ok. Threatening of harm, kidnapping,locking your children up with pedophiles, or any of the other insane rhetoric of the past week is unacceptable. Anyone who says it’s justified or is ok has ethics issues and is part of the underlying problem.

Maegon
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 3:15 am

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Maegon » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:15 am

Vilac wrote:I just don’t believe in congresswoman Maxine saying it’s ok to go out of your way to harass or imply harassing people at their houses, kids schools, personal time and space is civil or appropriate. Peaceful protest is ok. Targeting and harassment is not ok. Threatening of harm, kidnapping,locking your children up with pedophiles, or any of the other insane rhetoric of the past week is unacceptable. Anyone who says it’s justified or is ok has ethics issues and is part of the underlying problem.


Do you understand why people were so upset by Trump telling people to knock out protestors or the implication that 2nd amendment folks could keep Hillary from nominating judges that might vote against the 2nd amendment? Anyone who says it's justified or is ok has ethic issues and is part of the underlying problem.

Yes, they both want too far, but honestly, it's not hard to find an extreme example on either side to prop up as the sole problem with the opposite side.

Lykan wrote:Introspectively, it is pretty funny how I am still amazed at both sides' constant inability to have any semblance of a discussion without immediately resorting to "yeah my guy is prolly a douche, but your party did THIS OMGAHD!!!" It is the central theme in virtually every political conversation now, both public and private. 0 accountability, 0 productivity, just nonstop jiggery pokery and hate-mongering from top-down while ignoring the actual issues.

Wtf cares what Obama did? Stop using it to excuse Trump's idiocy,


Have we actually had any real policy debates on here, or have you managed any real policy debates with anyone? Most people don't know enough about the issues to get past the initial talking points, so what do most people do when they're out of defense options? Call names or walk away. I tried having honest discussions about the tax bill repercussions, and it always came down to, "Well, I want my money." I had better chances convincing walls to move during the flag kneeling debate.

To be honest, I can't even keep up with the fucking issues anymore, because by the time I get around to studying the plausible effects of the tariffs, another stupid circus act will begin.

Arkan
Posts: 247
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: One Year of Trump

Postby Arkan » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:46 pm

Lykan wrote:Introspectively, it is pretty funny how I am still amazed at both sides' constant inability to have any semblance of a discussion without immediately resorting to "yeah my guy is prolly a douche, but your party did THIS OMGAHD!!!" It is the central theme in virtually every political conversation now, both public and private. 0 accountability, 0 productivity, just nonstop jiggery pokery and hate-mongering from top-down while ignoring the actual issues.

Wtf cares what Obama did? Stop using it to excuse Trump's idiocy, the same way Obama-zealots used Bush's idiocy every time someone said anything bad about Obama (and now use Trump instead of Bush).

"With malice toward none, with charity for all..."

Hi Treach!


I get what you're saying, but we really don't bother with this. Compare personal behavior of Trump and Obama and no, there's not both sides admitting theirs is also a douche. Obama is actually a good guy. And regarding the need to criticize the previous Presidents, well, for Dems, it's pretty rare that we would remotely use Bush to defend Obama. The rare exceptions are when criticisms are so asinine as to ignore the criticizer's actual beliefs. For instance, a favorite of mine is when republicans attack Obama's drone policies. Sure, they can be problematic, but compared to two full-scale invasions? And then to vote for Trump who immediately scaled up our military involvement and ramped up civilian killings? This is something that is in the very foundation of the Republican party. Attacking Obama's drone policies as being too harsh is like being a Republican who is anti-white people. Or the current attacks on Obama for Trump's immigrant policies. That's just dumb. And Obama DID receive plenty of criticism on that topic, but it came from the left. And it's very much a fact that Trump's policies in this area are Trump's policies, not Obama's.

McConnel's stated goal of being a senator was to defeat Obama. That's not how the freaking legislative process works! That's not what Senators are supposed to do! Trump said the Republican health care bill was "mean" but he just wanted a win by passing it. What kind of sense does that even make if policy matters? And this was after skipping nearly the entire legislative process. These are not the statements of people who even care about policy, whether they are in power or not.

Seriously, imagine Democrats started acting like Republicans. Where Maxine Waters is the NORM of the Democratic party since that behavior is tame by Republican standards. Imagine if Obama really did act like Trump, or Hillary really was as corrupt as Trump, or where Democratic senators did nothing but filibuster. Google "republican filibusters" if this is somehow new information. We were missing a member of the Supreme Court for over a year because of this partisanship. If Democrats took over the Senate and Trump had an opportunity to appoint someone, I wouldn't want them to let him do it, even if it took 6 years. Why would I? Sure, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, but I ain't gonna let my side be the only ones blinded.

Remember when Wilson became a hero of Republicans for heckling Obama, yet Trump said not clapping for him was treasonous?

We used to have lengthy policy discussions here.


Return to “Player's Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests