Enok wrote:. More people have died to communism than to facism
Citation needed. Holodomor numbers are literally based from Nazi propaganda at the time and thus are of questionable accuracy. Ukraine was always famine prone region, they had it worse under the Czar. I guess the Soviets paid the clouds not to rain! Stalin screwed up but genocide on the level of the holocaust? Eh that's very questionable and use of the word "genocide" itself with regards to the Ukraine famine is the subject of much debate among historians. They had a couple bad harvests and probably pushed industrialization way too hard. Stalin was an asshole. I don't think anyone deliberately wanted to genocide Ukrainians like the Nazis wanted to genocide everyone that wasn't them. There's nothing inherent to socialism/communism that demands mass murder of different ethnicities unlike fascism, which has that as a central tenet.
Also kind of a poor comparison anyway because if you look at what the Nazis were planning if they had won, they would have slaughtered tens of millions of 'undesirables.' They were only in power for a relatively short amount of time and still killed millions in an industrialized fashion.
Again, Portugal and Scandinavian countries exist, as well.
Also my entire family is from Communist E. Europe, if we're going to play that game.
Also if capitalism is so much better naturally then why did the USA rig the 1996 election in Yeltsin's favor? It's no big secret what happened. Then Yeltsin appointed Putin a few years after that and here we are! Seems like we (the USA) repeat the same foreign policy mistakes over and over. Polls from that part of the world show most people want things the way they were, as obviously capitalism has not delivered on any of its promises.
Anyway Stalin sucked and all but as was said this is all kind of moot anyway though because it's absurd to bring up the USSR when we're just talking about very simple things like socialized medicine that other countries have already done - not full economic system overhaul overnight. No one is talking about collectivizing farms (which they basically already are in the USA just under corporate banners, but anyway). I'm not going to stop pushing for something better because people a hundred years ago in wildly different conditions to ours didn't succeed.
Fun fact the USA has more people in prison, mostly for non violent drug offences, than the USSR ever did even at the height of Stalin's gulags. Our prisoners are also treated like shit, kept in horrible conditions, and are often forced to work corporate prison-sourced jobs for pennies an hour (taking jobs from regular people not that the companies care). So, we're locking people up on some Drug War bullcrap which then doesn't actually work to solve anything and putting them into a screwed up Justice System from which most can't ever escape again, and making them work for corporate profits. They have no rights, they can't even vote. Disproportionately minorities/black people imprisoned. This is just... slavery with some extra steps. Most conservatives I mention this to kind of shrug at me and say "well, they are prisoners they deserve it." By "forced" I mean "work your assignment or go into solitary until you do." The USA isn't exactly on some moral high ground here.
It's weird to me that any attempts to fix our current system immediately becomes "what about the Soviets though." well, what about them? If you DON'T want some revolution bringing chaos then you should want to reform what isn't working in a peaceful way instead of telling people suffering to pound sand and it's their own fault anyway. Wouldn't have been an October Revolution if the czars didn't screw up so bad.