Two Years of Trump

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Jaster
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Jaster » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:02 am

Enok wrote:@ Hope - How did he handle the military, in your opinion?

Jaster: How in Sweet Baby Jesus' name do you +1 someone for a bottom line that says "I never have problems with people wanting to find out facts." and then jump straight into Hannity talking points, criticizing Mueller for "wanting to find out facts". If Hope still feels something shady is going on with Obama's birth certificate(!) can you at least extend an olive branch towards Mueller and his scrutiny of the Trump campaign? No?


I can say +1 because we continue to see and will see more facts how really ass backwards this whole thing was. From the corruption in the govt using each other’s agencies for political gain to the breach in policy and procedure to support your motive. We just saw Cohen plead guilty for misleading or false statement to congress. Will we also see the same extended at Brennan, Comey, clapper and all the other side that made false or incorrect statements to congress? Was plenty of lies from them to congress fact checked. As for Hannity, I just can’t stand to watch him so I don’t know what his talking points there are. These are my points because I use my brain and process information and come up with my own opinion of it. The olive branch to mueller is that he should have scrutiny about trump, he was put in charge to find the Russian collusion. However, can you break that olive branch and admit that he should be trying to find and connect the darts of the crime in his scope of work instead of creating crimes by trying to get people to commit perjury over misremember statement or making incorrect statements on stuff not even Russia related. Tax evasion and other shit? Regardless this will be the one side of the prosecution and we know that there is also the rebutle or other side that will come out to respond to mueller assessment and accusation. I’m not overly concerned because we all know that trump didn’t collude with Russia to win the election. He beat idiot Hillary Clinton who was terrible because she was terrible. You can say it until you are blue in the face but you know trump wouldn’t have any idea how to collude with foreign powers to win the presidency. He didn’t even think he would win until he saw what he was up against. She lost fair and square and people catching feelings because of the era we are in and sore losing is the way of the world. No self accountability.

Hope
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:12 pm

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Hope » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:44 am

I have no issue with anyone wanting to find out facts. I do have issue with bias folks trying to make up facts.

Enok
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Enok » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:16 am

Right. Like alternative facts.

Reyne
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Reyne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:18 am

However, can you break that olive branch and admit that he should be trying to find and connect the darts of the crime in his scope of work instead of creating crimes by trying to get people to commit perjury over misremember statement or making incorrect statements on stuff not even Russia related. Tax evasion and other shit?



I don't think Hillary lost because of Russia either - I don't think Russia stopped her campaign from ever going to the rust belt. But... hah come on, that's what the point of an investigation/prosecutor is. This is how it works for everyone. That's why you don't ever talk to police without a lawyer present even to tell the innocent truth, on a side note.

If other crimes are revealed during the course of the Russia investigation then that's just how the cookie crumbles. No police investigator or prosecutor in the USA will stay "within the scope" of what they've accused you of. If more crimes are discovered during the course of investigation you get popped for those too. Yeah, tax evasion is still illegal turns out. That's what Al Capone went to prison for when they couldn't pin anything else on him.

Also I like the framing of "they're just mispeaking or misremembering and getting busted on a technicality!" Nah, that's not what's happening actually. Tons of people are flipping and cooperating with the investigation and things are slowly moving up the chain. They're not just making up crimes to arrest people for.

Hope wrote:I supported the birther movement, in fact i still believe something shady was going on. I never wanted President Obama to fail though, and never though bad of him as a person. I just disagreed with some of his policies and how he handled the military (i was deployed under President Obama), and felt that his avoidance of providing his birth certs was a bit shady. I never have problems with people wanting to find out facts.


But he provided his birth certificate in '08 and '11 and the anti-Obama people just called them fake and kept harping about an illegal presidency. I've got my issues with Obama, too, but that whole birther thing was a bit ridiculous. Let's be for real here - no one is going to get through the vetting process all the way to actually getting sworn in as POTUS if every T wasn't crossed and every i wasn't dotted and they weren't checked 10 times over. I've had friends get low level security clearances from FBI and it's not a walk in the park.

Trump hasn't ever provided his tax return and probably will *never* provide it. What is he subject to the longest audit in IRS history? Audits don't mean you can't release tax records, regardless. Just say I'm not going to release them, they are private and have nothing to do with my government function and be done with it. The dude just lies constantly. He tweeted out a day ago that the riots in Paris were about people wanting Trump and chanting Trump in the streets. That's a complete and utter fabrication! Not even room for misinterpreting - it is just fake news.

Jaster wrote:Secondly, in year two my retirement plan is doing awesome and I am doing extremely well financially. Still getting kicked in the nuts from Obamacare though. However, baby steps, we will get there. Lastly, RUSSIA!! Two years later and millions upon millions spent to get people to commit perjury against themselves and find people who cheated taxes before the campaign. Well spent sore losers , well spent.


I wonder what your portfolio is in, considering the market as a whole is down to Jan 2018 levels or worse. Regardless, a great stock market is meaningless for most Americans. GM cut 15,000 jobs, their stock price went up on the news. Great. The top 20% of US households own 80%+ of outstanding shares. I am glad they are doing okay while the rest of the country continues to slide. Just this morning I was reading about yet another industry that "millennials are killing!" (Vegas casinos) - apparently no one has caught on that when people have no money to spend they can't buy goods and services. GM cut those jobs because new car sales are down significantly. Wonder why.

Anyway, I find it amusing that people are angry about the cost of the Mueller investigation given how Trump wastes money nonstop.

You want to talk mistreating the military and wasting money? What about deploying troops to the border to make a bunch of noise about the migrant caravan leading up to the midterms then the election happened and noise about the caravan basically stopped and the troops were sent home before the caravan even arrived. What was the damn point then? Jerking soldiers around during the holidays and spending tens of millions of dollars (more than the Mueller investigation has cost) to score some points in the election?
Last edited by Reyne on Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:40 am, edited 5 times in total.

Reyne
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Reyne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 am

By the way the Mueller investigation has likely cost the government nothing because they've already seized $25-40 million from Manafort thanks to asset forfeiture. Multiple properties, bank accounts, etc. Dude is paying for himself!

Regarding Manafort, remember that the man made his fortune lobbying in DC on behalf of some of the world's worst dictators and various other nefarious people.

These activities led Manafort's firm to be listed amongst the top five lobbying firms receiving money from human-rights abusing regimes in the Center for Public Integrity report "The Torturers' Lobby".[66]


Allegedly, Manafort's continuing lobbying efforts helped preserve the flow of money to Savimbi several years after the Soviet Union ceased its involvement in the Angolan conflict, forestalling peace talks.[59]

Manafort wrote the campaign strategy for Édouard Balladur in the 1995 French elections, and was paid indirectly.[68] The money, at least $200,000, was transferred to him through his friend, Lebanese arms-dealer Abdul Rahman al-Assir, from middle-men fees paid for arranging the sale of three French Agosta-class submarines to Pakistan, in a scandal known as the Karachi affair.[59]


Manafort received $700,000 from the Kashmiri American Council between 1990 and 1994, supposedly to promote the plight of the Kashmiri people. However, an FBI investigation revealed the money was actually from Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI) agency as part of a disinformation operation to divert attention from terrorism. A former Pakistani ISI official claimed Manafort was aware of the nature of the operation.[69] While producing a documentary as part of the deal, Manafort interviewed several Indian officials while pretending to be a CNN reporter.[70]

Jaster
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Jaster » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:03 pm

You want to talk mistreating the military and wasting money? What about deploying troops to the border to make a bunch of noise about the migrant caravan leading up to the midterms then the election happened and noise about the caravan basically stopped and the troops were sent home before the caravan even arrived. What was the damn point then? Jerking soldiers around during the holidays and spending tens of millions of dollars (more than the Mueller investigation has cost) to score some points in the election?


I would rather see our military defending our border than fighting wars in countries that are not ours all the time. I know everyone thinks the military is here to go to Iraq, Afghan, s Korea’s , etc. but it should be here to protect our homeland and security mainly.

Enok
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Enok » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 pm

Jaster wrote:The olive branch to mueller is that he should have scrutiny about trump, he was put in charge to find the Russian collusion. However, can you break that olive branch and admit that he should be trying to find and connect the darts of the crime in his scope of work instead of creating crimes by trying to get people to commit perjury over misremember statement or making incorrect statements on stuff not even Russia related. Tax evasion and other shit?


That's not how that type of investigation works. You know this. In fact, the Clinton impeachment started with the Whitewater controversy in which independent counsel Kenneth Starr went beyond the initial issue to investigate any and all criminal activity that arose during his investigation.

Neither Bill Clinton nor Hillary were ever prosecuted, after three separate inquiries found insufficient evidence linking them with the criminal conduct of others related to the land deal. The matter was handled by the Whitewater Independent Counsel, Kenneth Starr.


So much like Trump (whose investigation isn't even finished yet), the alleged crime that started the investigation wasn't what caught the interest of the prosecutors.

To quote from the investigation that lead up to Bill Clinton's impeachment:

The charges arose from an investigation by Ken Starr, an Independent Counsel. Originally dealing with Whitewater, Starr, with the approval of United States Attorney General Janet Reno, conducted a wide-ranging investigation of alleged abuses, including the Whitewater affair, the firing of White House travel agents, and the alleged misuse of FBI files. On January 12, 1998, Linda Tripp, who had been working with the Jones lawyers, informed Starr that Lewinsky was preparing to commit perjury in the Jones case and had asked Tripp to do the same. She also said Clinton's friend Vernon Jordan was assisting Lewinsky. Based on the connection to Jordan, who was under scrutiny in the Whitewater probe, Starr obtained approval from Reno to expand his investigation into whether Lewinsky and others were breaking the law.


We know that several Trump associates perjured themselves. They have admitted as much. If there's evidence leading higher up in the food chain, I'm sure you would want that investigated. In the name of truth and facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme ... ll_Clinton

Edits: I'm not friends with the quote function.
Last edited by Enok on Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Enok
Posts: 169
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Enok » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Jaster wrote:
You want to talk mistreating the military and wasting money? What about deploying troops to the border to make a bunch of noise about the migrant caravan leading up to the midterms then the election happened and noise about the caravan basically stopped and the troops were sent home before the caravan even arrived. What was the damn point then? Jerking soldiers around during the holidays and spending tens of millions of dollars (more than the Mueller investigation has cost) to score some points in the election?


I would rather see our military defending our border than fighting wars in countries that are not ours all the time. I know everyone thinks the military is here to go to Iraq, Afghan, s Korea’s , etc. but it should be here to protect our homeland and security mainly.


This point I think most citizens in the U.S agree wholeheartedly with.

+1 ;)

Reyne
Posts: 298
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Reyne » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:35 pm

Jaster wrote:I would rather see our military defending our border than fighting wars in countries that are not ours all the time. I know everyone thinks the military is here to go to Iraq, Afghan, s Korea’s , etc. but it should be here to protect our homeland and security mainly.


I'd love to see most of our ~800 of military bases around the world shut down and to have a more home-based military. I'd also love to see some of the grift going on with the military industry contractors, high ranking pentagon officials, and the revolving door they've set up eliminated and have that money be spent on raising salaries for service members and properly funding the VA. The fact that there are any homeless veterans at all is frankly disgusting, let alone that we have tens of thousands. Over 40,000 according to the last Department of Housing and Urban Development report I've seen. If Republicans care about the military so much why don't they reign in spending on "superplane of the future that explodes on the runway and can't shoot its guns or fly near rainclouds" and "ship that literally dissolves on a molecular level when exposed to water (*)" a bit and divert it towards service members who need it?

One of my biggest issues with Obama is that he more or less just expanded all the wars Bush already involved us in (just more drones and less boots on the ground I suppose) and kept on doing that tried-and-failed strategy of constant intervention - such as the coup we helped do in Honduras which is the source of most people in that migrant caravan everyone is in a fuss about!


(*) Just to really pound in how stupid this is because I find it hilarious in a dark "let's waste all our money" way, from the wiki page on the USS Independence:

Galvanic corrosion caused by an aluminum hull in contact with the stainless steel propulsion system with sea water acting as an electrolyte, and electrical currents not fully isolated, caused "aggressive corrosion."[35][36]


Galvanic corrosion is something shipbuilders figured out in the 1700s.

In June 2009, the development and construction of Independence was 220% over-budget. The total projected cost for the ship was $704 million.


Ya'll spent over 2x the budget on developing a ship and didn't remember about galvanic corrosion?????? Don't worry they can fix it by installing a "protection package" (sacrificial metals welded onto the bottom so those corrode away instead of the hull) for another $10-15m per. Who cares as long as General Dynamics gets their check I guess.

A post about F35 would be 3x longer than this whole post itself so I'll leave finding out about that failplane as an exercise to the curious.

e: edit instead of new post...

https://www.texasobserver.org/strugglin ... ue-shield/

Struggling Rural Hospitals Say They’re Being Preyed Upon by Blue Cross Blue Shield

At the moment, rural hospitals are in a bad way. Since 2013, at least 18 of the state’s roughly 150 rural hospitals have closed, casualties of low patient volumes, stingy Medicaid and Medicare reimbursement rates, and the burden of operating in a state with the most uninsured people. At least 75 more hospitals are at risk of closure, according a recent report. Some have drastically cut services. For example, Stamford Memorial Hospital in Stamford, about 40 miles north of Abilene, closed in July and reopened as an outpatient clinic, leaving nearby residents without crucial emergency care. Others, such as two hospitals in Milam County near Austin, are slated for closure altogether.

Meanwhile, Health Care Service Corp., the parent company of Blue Cross, posted $1.3 billion in profits last year.
Last edited by Reyne on Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Magdan
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:08 pm

Re: Two Years of Trump

Postby Magdan » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 pm

Climate change, global warming, extinction etc. Line your pocket books friends. Bathe in the comforts of your man made disaster. Ramble about the meaningless. :ugeek: Trump doesn't believe it. Because why should he care. He's rich biatchhhh. It's to far gone to reverse at any rate. We shall reap what we sow. Keep it up world your doing splendid.


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