War system questions

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
Tandrael
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: War system questions

Postby Tandrael » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:21 pm

Mudrada wrote:Is it really such a stretch that the Bounty hunter clan is chasing Sellswords around? Don't be a mercenary, if you're not prepared to suffer for it.


Being hunted and killed by the clan that has them wanted is suffering for it. I’m even ok with Thiefbane hunting and killing them in lands other than those they are assisting. All I’m saying is that were I a Lion Warden, Red Eagle, or a *oL, then I would ban Thiefbane from executing warrants of people helping my war effort on my lands. If they did it anyway, I would warrant them.

Rig
Posts: 1609
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: War system questions

Postby Rig » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:41 pm

Weird. Last I saw someone said TB had permission to hunt wanteds in certain lands they're allied with that have hashed out that deal.

Also, that's some great anecdotal evidence against Rico. Maybe if this is the case, they can contact the Lion Wardens themselves with proof and logs that they were attacked instead of you guys bitching about it on forums.

Tandrael
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:02 pm

Re: War system questions

Postby Tandrael » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:02 pm

Rig wrote:Weird. Last I saw someone said TB had permission to hunt wanteds in certain lands they're allied with that have hashed out that deal.

Also, that's some great anecdotal evidence against Rico. Maybe if this is the case, they can contact the Lion Wardens themselves with proof and logs that they were attacked instead of you guys bitching about it on forums.


Who’s bitching? I asked a question and gave my view on the matter. I also didn’t mention names of parties involved for a reason. I’m not trying to make trouble for any characters via ooc forums. I’m trying to get clarification for what I see as a flaw in the way this is working.

This war system is a huge change to the landscape of the MUD. There are all kinds of things happening that I’ve never seen here in 18 years. That’s a great thing imo. There’s also obviously a lot of kinks to be worked out. That’s why the questions and opinions are here. This thread isn’t twenty pages because people like to bitch (at least not only).

Brocas
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:08 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: War system questions

Postby Brocas » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:19 pm

Another awesome opportunity presents itself here too. Since they aren't necessarily forced to be secret anymore...the black talon and iron fist seem like mercs willing to take gold from whoever pays the most to help sway a war too. Also since they aren't really law abiding, don't expect any nation's laws to protect you.

If an unclanned chooses to help in a war, expect to be wanted or hunted imo.

Aishana
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: War system questions

Postby Aishana » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:23 pm

It's on the way to making lightside a little more dangerous again, which is a good thing. Now we just need some wild (known) mcs running around to give the red ajah something to do.

Vampa
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: War system questions

Postby Vampa » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:38 pm

Tandrael wrote:I know of two instances in the last three days where TB killed two unclanned characters in Andor who had CoL warrants for helping Andor in the war. Both of these characters were statted in the last month and didn’t have TB warrants. My question was, why would Andor allow TB to execute warrants like these on their lands in war time? They may not be official members of the army, but they’re helping the Andor war effort.

I do think it’s ok for anyone involved the wars to get warrants for taking a side. I would also warrant any person (regardless of clan status) attacking those helping my war effort in my homeland. I would see Thiefbane attacking my mercenaries in my homeland as an open action in the war for the opposite side.


No one knows they're new characters, the only information they're privy to is if they're wanted, or not. To know that they're Andor wanted, a Lion Warden would have to inform them, or a Child of Light would have to inform them if they're Amador wanted, in most cases. Thiefbane have treaties for hunting wanteds. They ask permission when possible before serving a warrant, and in the cases you are referencing, they did ask and were given permission.

That aside, clans shouldn't be promoting vigilantism or the use of mercenaries if they want to retain any semblance of authority in their sovereignty or jurisdiction. Some clans, historically, have utilized Player Run Clans (such as the Andoran Cavalry, Whitebridge Militia, Baerlon Town Watch, and Amadician Army) in the past and included them in their treaties with other nations and the Thiefbane. They've used those PRC's to become feeders for the clan itself, in some cases, as well.

The Thiefbane are not a justice clan. They serve no nation and no sovereign. Borders are irrelevant to them, all they are concerned with is which side of the law you are on. It is very cliché, but they are the "long arm of the law" and if you try to take the law into your own hands then you had better expect they will come for you.

Kaan
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Re: War system questions

Postby Kaan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:44 pm

Rig wrote:Weird. Last I saw someone said TB had permission to hunt wanteds in certain lands they're allied with that have hashed out that deal.

Also, that's some great anecdotal evidence against Rico. Maybe if this is the case, they can contact the Lion Wardens themselves with proof and logs that they were attacked instead of you guys bitching about it on forums.


Two events did happen. One of the events was brought to attention with the clan and the other was not because it was unambiguous (the target had an actual TB warrant which they are currently trying to get cleared). There is no need to discuss private details or names on this thread. My point is: I witness that the cases being studied are real.

No one is "out-to-get" the TB in this discussion, and no one wants this mud to be "safe-mud-smurf-la-di-do-mud", or somesuch; this discussion is here because of the blatant flaw in the current TB role, where TB and various non-affiliated players assume that it is reasonable for TB to hunt Andoran allies in Andor, or RE allies in the 2R, based on a CoL warrant, and that those same players assume that the LW or RE should give permission to the TB to hunt their allies who are wanted by the CoL because of out-dated treaties.

Kaan
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Re: War system questions

Postby Kaan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:48 pm

Vampa wrote:The Thiefbane are not a justice clan. They serve no nation and no sovereign. Borders are irrelevant to them, all they are concerned with is which side of the law you are on. It is very cliché, but they are the "long arm of the law" and if you try to take the law into your own hands then you had better expect they will come for you.


Vampa, the "long arms of the law" are in an interesting situation because the warrants they are serving are not lawful in the lands where the warrants are being served. [Previously, those warrants usually were.]

Edit: additionally, because where and when the TB choose to serve their warrants is at their discretion, they can have a direct impact on the outcomes of battles during times of battles.
Last edited by Kaan on Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vampa
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:45 am

Re: War system questions

Postby Vampa » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:49 pm

No they aren't.

You're quite wrong across the board on all the statements you've made, regarding treaties, hunting rights, and assumption there's a flaw in their role.

Kaan
Posts: 321
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Re: War system questions

Postby Kaan » Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:52 pm

Vampa wrote:No they aren't.

You're quite wrong across the board on all the statements you've made, regarding treaties, hunting rights, and assumption there's a flaw in their role.

Could you please clarify, then. To my knowledge, TB have a hunting treaty with the LW and that is why they are allowed to hunt there. Details of the treaty could be provided, if you need to see it... Are you stating they do not need LW authorization to hunt in Andor?


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