weary coin - nuke it?

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isabel
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

weary coin - nuke it?

Postby isabel » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:19 am

could we drop the 75/150 gc to exchange clan cape/trinks at weary please? i know coin is very easy on the game now especially for bonused chars, but

1) the trink/cape was already earned in pk and that should qualify

2) i really feel like now coin is the new xp, unless you actively smob you're spending a lot of time doing coin runs for h/h, wearys, and all the other coin sinks there are now.

What i mean is, I get that you guys are doing coin sinks and that is good - there are people with lots of maxed out accounts etc. But the weary thing is something that non-smobbing pkers use and the nice thing is that it allows us to eq up with trinks/cape without "needing" to farm anything - it's something earned through pk.

And the thing with farming is that it's nice once in a while for sure - but it should be possible to pk without the effort of having to farm so much. (for me: i have an alt with i think 10k copper, but my other alts are usually without coin. If i want coin I have to spend time hitting stuff repeatedly, and that's not really why I play! I feel that pk should be tailored around non-farmers and it should be able to feed itself)

Please consider!

PS - I am also posting this after really checking the coin stuff around FD for instance. There are lots of small mobs you can kill, some dog zone, near junc, brigands, df rent has stuff and people, camp mobs also you can kill and sell their gear, lithe is the jackpot - I enjoy doing that kind of wandering around and selling stuff. But also shops run out of money (thankfully armorer has more cash now) - they rarely have coin for the lithe axe for instance. So I can get the 75 gc but I have to spend 20ish minutes at the least running around north zones and hoping FD shops have coin.

Now all I'm saying is that I already 'earned' the trink through pk - why should Ihave to spend more time making that 75 gc? If I spend that 20 mins and get 75 gc, it should go in benefiting me in some other way - such as being able to buy a vial at herbalist for instance.

And look at the math of this: If I get 2 sids in pk, I could sell one to figure and get 150 gc and then weary the other to wear it. Thanks to this coin sink, if I get 2 sids in pk I only get to wear one!!! :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Lea
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:46 pm

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Lea » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:40 am

I agree from an rp perspective. No one wants to spend the coin, so we're all running around wearing each other's clan gear we got from Trollocs.

Aishana
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Aishana » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:46 am

From a game design perspective, it is necessary. I can understand that some players primarily enjoy pk and want to be able to do that only, but this game encompasses more than just pk. Likewise there are players who only want to RP or smob and shun any pk or attempts to pk them, and pk is also a very necessary part of the game. Games are, at their core, time sinks. And the relationship of smobbing/exping/pk/gold farming is what really drives this time sink forward. Smobbing without any equipment loss (which only comes through PK or deathtraps) very quickly becomes pointless, unless you're farming quest points which is a relatively new introduction. Allowing for PK to exist without any need for farming for equipment, gold, vials, experience gets you to the point where darkside is struggling now...if there isn't active pk going on then there is nothing for you to do, so you rent or just sit around afk until something starts up. There -must- be some attrition of equipment loss, gold sinks, experience loss, etc or the game becomes stale and pointless. If you just trade the same sets of equipment back and forth between sides, or worse never loot anyone at all then it becomes deathmatch mud, which is fun for a very short period of time but not viable long term, and I think we've been continually marching more and more towards this with the devaluation of all basic equipment, ready availability of cash, and trivialization of exp (though admittedly this is one of the most universally hated/boring things that probably is good to have less of).

More directly to your post regarding trinkets, trinkets only leave the game through these types of things. Exchange for coin, or for consumables. They're put in the game regularly through smobbing which I think is a big positive, and of course they can be issued. As alluded to above, there must be some outflow to keep the game from becoming stale. I can sympathize that you may not like smobbing or farming mobs, but also it's entirely possible to pk without needing to do such farming if you are more successful at pk. A lot of the top pkers never have a need to smob. As you said, you can exchange the trinkets for cash if needed, and also exchange them for vials. But having your cake and eating it too is just bad for the game in the long run, and I think making it easier for more people to avoid other key activities in the game is just the wrong direction.

What I would say should be considered though is whether to increase the exchange rate for trinkets now that a huge gold sink has been introduced with clan coffers, as an alternative way to farm gold. Perhaps 100/200 gc, or 150 for all trinkets regardless of rank 1 or 5.

Aishana
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Aishana » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:55 am

Lea wrote:I agree from an rp perspective. No one wants to spend the coin, so we're all running around wearing each other's clan gear we got from Trollocs.


This is something that formerly was actually just enforced by the players, perhaps with some encouragement from mobs yelling if they saw you wearing ds equipment. I think we ought to be pushing to go back to that. Rather not see it done through mobs, though that would be an option as well (yelling/docking for tainted equipment etc). Really don't agree that because the rp is bad we should just make the exchange free. Rather have people actually follow RP even when inconvenient. You already get the convenience of exchanging for a relatively low sum to begin with.

isabel
Posts: 485
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby isabel » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:10 am

"Allowing for PK to exist without any need for farming for equipment, gold, vials, experience gets you to the point where darkside is struggling now...if there isn't active pk going on then there is nothing for you to do, so you rent or just sit around afk until something starts up."

Aishana, the point is that when I LOSE at pk, this is what I have to do - I have to go and hit 2 smobs at least for half a kit and a sword. I have to re-level. I have to run around Shienar getting some coin to get a vial and so on.

When I WIN at pk, and loot the equipment, then why do I have to pay 75 to weary the clan cape? What kind of a sink is that?

Don't you see that the game is rewarding players for smobbing -with 3 qps for 3 smobs or so, and rewarding players for farming mobs in general. And I have no problem with that because we are in 2018 and players should do what they find fun and progress. But as a pker I don't want to HAVE to farm stuff just to use the stuff that I WON in pk. The fact that I won it in pk should be enough.

Wotmud is an amazing game because it has so many facets, but there is no 'ideal' way to play which is like 25% pk 25% rp 25% smob 25% farming, or whatever. There are however types of players who find different things fun.

Smobbers largely smob and can't avoid pk if it shows up. Pkers largely pk but will need to smob once in a while if they died. That is a given. But if I won in pk, then why this penalty of a sink?

If they want to sink trinkets then why route it through pk of all things? Maybe you can give risk a trinket while smobbing and have a chance for a rare or so such that people burn 10 sids for a chance at a heron - fine with that.

Lea
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri May 04, 2018 6:46 pm

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Lea » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:47 pm

Aishana wrote:
Lea wrote:I agree from an rp perspective. No one wants to spend the coin, so we're all running around wearing each other's clan gear we got from Trollocs.


This is something that formerly was actually just enforced by the players, perhaps with some encouragement from mobs yelling if they saw you wearing ds equipment. I think we ought to be pushing to go back to that. Rather not see it done through mobs, though that would be an option as well (yelling/docking for tainted equipment etc). Really don't agree that because the rp is bad we should just make the exchange free. Rather have people actually follow RP even when inconvenient. You already get the convenience of exchanging for a relatively low sum to begin with.


My question is, how do we enforce? Ask council to dock people? Warn and attack? I think it has become so minor that I doubt many councils would feel comfortable docking for it. In addition, the general culture of acceptance means most clans don't care enough to start a war over it.

And I see and appreciate your money sink argument, though I do think we have plenty of them already.

Taziar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Taziar » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:52 pm

I have to agree with Aishana. The weary exchange got totally removed and I think the coin requirement was the best way to bring it back. You take one jcuff that isn't really any better than a kcuff and turn it into your treasurer and you will have 3000 gold crowns to pay for weary costs...

Reyne
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Reyne » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:26 pm

The value of the items turned in as posted in Announcements is in crowns, not coppers right? Just wanted to double check...

Taziar
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:28 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Taziar » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:32 pm

yeah, I turned in 2 jcuffs in Rising Sun Treasurer and we got 6k gcs for it

Raeza
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:21 am

Re: weary coin - nuke it?

Postby Raeza » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:20 pm

Lea wrote:My question is, how do we enforce? Ask council to dock people? Warn and attack? I think it has become so minor that I doubt many councils would feel comfortable docking for it. In addition, the general culture of acceptance means most clans don't care enough to start a war over it.


Agreed -- I don't necessarily mind having to pay gold to change trinkets at the weary (and I always do, which has recently been draining my bank account quite rapidly). My problem with it is that I see lots of humans running around wearing whoever's clan trinkets without any consequences. Either we (the players) need to be better about enforcing it, or it should be done away with. Otherwise, you are left with a situation where you are penalised for doing the right thing, while others who don't care go about their merry way keeping their gold and trinkets.

Taziar wrote:You take one jcuff that isn't really any better than a kcuff and turn it into your treasurer and you will have 3000 gold crowns to pay for weary costs...


That depends on having a clan policy that basically uses the treasurer as a very wealthy store -- where whatever value you deposit, you are allowed to take right back out as cash. The right to withdraw that money is not automatic just because you deposited something.


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