One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

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Fermin
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Fermin » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:50 am

Just curious here, is there any reason to use one handed daggers over two handed? You would think they would have some advantage given the extra practices required, but they don't seem to:

Dirks with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat): OB:157 DB:150 PB:160 (7d3 damage)
Basilard with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:153 DB:150 PB:150 (7d3 damage)
Tripal with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:161 DB:150 PB:156 (8d3 damage)

Above stats are with 93 Shield parry (about 36 practices, 99 shield parry would require 54 and I don't believe that is viable...but it would provide the following:)

Basilard with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:153 DB:150 PB:156 (7d3 damage)
Tripal with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:161 DB:150 PB:162 (8d3 damage)

MISC: The two handed variety provide better (complete?) protection against the DISARM ability of fencing blades
MISC: The two handed need high str to get above results...the only consideration here is perhaps channelers using one handed daggers if their defense was significant...for comparison in a yew staff kit (weapon and shield at 91): OB:138 DB:146 PB: 187

iria
Posts: 318
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:35 pm

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by iria » Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:58 pm

Well dirks are supposed to be rare, so it shouldn't be everyone using them. Thats the upside about them, you save all the pracs from sparry. 1h are the stuff you use if you don't have any pods. Granted after they made them craftable theres 5.000 out there(Should've focused on ABS weapons instead of combo weapons for craftable imo, remove pod/pog/trident as craftables).

Can't really compare a rare vs their non-rare counterparts, maybe tripple needs a boost in whatever, but I think it has the highest stab dmg so that might be the only boost it needs, alogn with better melee damage. Compare the stats you get from a cc vs steel sai and you'll get a more realistic picture of 1h vs 2h.
Would be much the same as saying why use a saw toothed axe when a knife axe gives you so much better ob :p(disclaimer no Idea if knife axe actually gives more ob than saw toothed, but you get the idea)

Edit: And again as you said you need high str for 2handed to be worth using, I imagine many rogues might have focused on dex/con more than str. I guess trolloc rogues get a bonus there since they can get 21 str so thats another..12-14? pb.

livendros
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:25 am

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by livendros » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:14 pm

So I haven't kept up with everything since people figured out every formula for the game that's my disclaimer. But isn't there something to do with using a shield splitting parry better?

Sanguine
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Sanguine » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:28 pm

Also probably most rogues are roughly 18 19 19 w Two River rogue starting being quite generous and/or people's years worth of rerolls.

Melat
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:52 pm
Location: Hawaii

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Melat » Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:57 am

I suppose two handed daggers are just more rare. Even the steel sai is lower in comparison to the 1 handed counter parts.

Moral of the story is: If you have access to those nice PoD's, then you probably want to use that. Money helps.

Skurk
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:44 am

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Skurk » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 am

For me it's cause I can get a redstone without much effort and steel sai is super meh, but dirks aren't worth the money. For a player like you it's probably not a huge issue though so maybe there isn't an upside for you just using dirks

Fermin
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Fermin » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:38 am

I guess my belief is that basilard could get upped a little:

Current:
Basilard with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:153 DB:150 PB:150 (7d3 damage)

Suggested:
Basilard with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat + onyx shield): OB:153 DB:150 PB:157 (7d3 damage)


Dirks for comparison:
Dirks with dodge(jcuffs + surcoat): OB:157 DB:150 PB:160 (7d3 damage) (still better, still saves 30+ pracs)

Fermin
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Fermin » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:00 pm

Guess I should post my reasoning: Dirks are a near must for stabby hunters which have an advantage in autotrack over the typical rogue - the rogue class would then have an advantage because of their design practice setup (they get to use a less expensive weapon without taking the big hit on raw stats). Granted they have to give up some things practice wise, but might open up more of a choice like Skurk said, their is a nice cost difference that makes it a choice now.

Mikhan
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:55 am

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Mikhan » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:47 pm

Makes sense to me

Sarryn
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Re: One Handed Vs Two Handed Daggers

Post by Sarryn » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:34 am

Thread derail! Down/remove stab! For realz... Why are we comparing a rare to a normal dagger though. In principle I'd agree with the theory that 1h daggers should offer more defense over 2h. But comparing a non rare to a basic dagger doesn't make sense to me. If you want to say a tripple bladed or a sai then ok... As for the basilard...nah

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