Combat skills formulas

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Rhys
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Rhys » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:46 pm

The point is that no one is actually supposed to be unbashable.

But some players are nostalgic for a time when dodge was broken and a player could literally approach unbashability.

A character in a perfect dodge kit is still pretty difficult to bash as a non-master wielding a claymore...but you know that. Sometimes when you're typing out a response to a Rigpost you wonder what the point is :P

Rhys
Posts: 117
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Rhys » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:58 pm

Opponent db: 150
Hatchet 15.5lbs/zerk 210 ob/120 pb/riding
57% bash chance


Now, if was like a 90% bash chance, I'd think dodge was worthless. But what you're telling me is that if a mounted fade with one of the most powerful combo weapons in the game goes berserk...he has a 57% chance of bashing 150 dodge.

That seems totally reasonable to me.

Rig
Posts: 1645
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Rig » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:45 pm

Yea I think that's reasonable. It's just fighting non master hunters and shit that still bash you almost every fuckin time that it's a pain in the ass.

Eol
Posts: 360
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:34 pm

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Eol » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:08 pm

Rhys wrote:
Opponent db: 150
Hatchet 15.5lbs/zerk 210 ob/120 pb/riding
57% bash chance


Now, if was like a 90% bash chance, I'd think dodge was worthless. But what you're telling me is that if a mounted fade with one of the most powerful combo weapons in the game goes berserk...he has a 57% chance of bashing 150 dodge.

That seems totally reasonable to me.


-Fiddled around because this is just too interesting. I may be wrong but I believe the "probability" taps out at like .. 74% for riding/clubs - just for some perspective on what the highest value can be (Stark can correct me). Seems like a non-club trolls taps out at 60%...?

-If I did it correctly - very fascinating to see the contribution that riding contributes to a human. The 12+ OB and the riding (5%) more than doubles a human's likelihood of bashing a target. Based on my character's weapons/stats etc. being dismounted vs mounted is a 14% to 31% chance of bashing 150 DB.

-Practicing dodge as an abser doesn't appear to confer any benefit at all in a bash fight based on the semi-generic values I chose. A character with 160 OB/ 18 lbs weapon/ 99 in skills bashes 1 and 80 db at the same percentage.

-I was sort of unimpressed by the contribution of 99% bash. I'm not saying the points don't add up - just that I used to fret when I was stuck at 95%, but I find myself wondering now if the value of more OB is in fact more potent. Or that the real question is ..am I already in a situation where I stand any chance of bashing the opponent.

-It seems like for certain weapon weights that when held constant you can pick an OB and every point of increasing DB over that becomes more effective. 18.5, non-club, 160 OB, each point of DB over 111 starts to reduce the bash percentage from 60 down.

This really does allow a lot more information in evaluating the mid-tier weapons. I personally felt like the last weapons modification really demonstrated a handful of top tier weapons and in many cases nothing at all below them. There isn't a 1 handed club other than bone club (or warhammer) that I would wield. The rest are so much worse I don't even see the point which bummed me out because cudgel used to be a semi-viable option. In this same vibe - I have to give it to Rig for getting silver sword upped immediately making a bunch of long blades obsolete...

Aishana
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Aishana » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:19 pm

Trolls do get a couple base OB over humans but yeah riding base bonus of 5% + the OB bonus works out to like a +12 to the roll. Dodge on a troll is just yuck.

Fermin
Posts: 124
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:16 pm

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Fermin » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:25 pm

Rhys wrote:
Opponent db: 150
Hatchet 15.5lbs/zerk 210 ob/120 pb/riding
57% bash chance


Now, if was like a 90% bash chance, I'd think dodge was worthless. But what you're telling me is that if a mounted fade with one of the most powerful combo weapons in the game goes berserk...he has a 57% chance of bashing 150 dodge.

That seems totally reasonable to me.



Would be great if someone would roll 100 bashes or so, because I don’t think this is close to accurate...I think more likely is there is something we don’t know. Could be a lot of factors including maybe we dodgers remember the bashes more then the dodges...

Aishana
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:02 am

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Aishana » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:27 pm

Well when one bash takes half your hp or more assuming 2 people are on you, 57% is pretty damn high. Also hatchet should be giving you more ob than that idk where that number is from or what assumption in EQ/stats/harden status he's using.

Raeza
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:21 am

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Raeza » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:30 pm

Wow, this is super interesting and really helpful. Thank you for putting it together Stark, and also to Vampa for making the information available.

8) If probability is greater than 95, set to 95


This also makes me wonder if there is a similar 95% max for the weave success roll. It certainly feels like you cannot do much better than about 1/20 weaves failing, even practicing a weave up to 99. Now it has me wondering whether practicing weaves that high is totally pointless.

Treach
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Treach » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:17 pm

Fermin wrote:Would be great if someone would roll 100 bashes or so, because I don’t think this is close to accurate...I think more likely is there is something we don’t know. Could be a lot of factors including maybe we dodgers remember the bashes more then the dodges...


When it is close to a coin flip there is a lot of luck involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

The gambler's fallacy is the mistaken belief that if something happens more frequently than normal during a given period, it will happen less frequently in the future (or vice versa)... If a fair coin is flipped 21 times, the probability of 21 heads is 1 in 2,097,152. The probability of flipping a head after having already flipped 20 heads in a row is 1/2.

Mikhan
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:55 am

Re: Combat skills formulas

Postby Mikhan » Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:44 pm

Raeza wrote:Wow, this is super interesting and really helpful. Thank you for putting it together Stark, and also to Vampa for making the information available.





+1


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