limiting council per player

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Sanguine
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:48 pm

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Sanguine » Fri May 17, 2019 11:57 pm

Shiva wrote:
isabel wrote:What would really really help is some kind of document that clearly describes the clan's RP, preferably drafted by players who have really invested time and effort into building the clan.

This would curtail the problem of newer players or new to the clan players shifting the RP. It would also REALLY help with people choosing to interpret the RP in a way that suits their alts. It would also help navigate the confusion around books doing one thing and wotmud doing another when it comes to clan RP.


Who is to say a clan must have a stagnant RP though?

Kind of derailing this thread, but some kind of documentation on a clan's RP doesn't equal stagnant, and doesn't mean that documentation can't be revised as the clan and its players evolve (which there is not too much of bar some clans whose RP is hard to define to begin with). That said, creating that kind of documentation with the clan agreeing on it isn't the easiest thing to achieve, but might be worth trying in most clans.

Lord Pe
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:20 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Lord Pe » Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 am

Elysia wrote:It can be a positive thing, but it can also warp a clan's rp into something it never was, with older players coming back and thinking "hell no".

Imagine people locusting into Sword and Hand and insta-turning it into a clan that submitted to Seanchan. That wouldn't do any justice to the older players. Sure, at some point people have been absent for so long, you can say "well, then they should have read forums or played", but it can potentially move very quickly. Now imagine if it was a group of Seanchan players who did this and you have a whole new problem with conflicting agendas, which far exceeds the supposed problem of what any individual can pull off in multiple clans. Hence why individuals are essentially harmless.



To my main point: whats to stop a group of oh say morat'torm council from gaining control of two or 3 ls clans and shaping it as they please doing whatever thet can get away with. Another scenario using the council position to help sway toward a heron on a cityhead that your fav alt and buddies do a lot.

Lord Pe
Posts: 239
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:20 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Lord Pe » Sat May 18, 2019 12:57 am

Rig wrote:I mean, going into it you're assuming there is ill intent involved. I personally haven't seen any groups of people trying to do this to clans but I don't play LS to know enough of that happening in clans.

you may play a different game than i do

Rig
Posts: 1768
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: JESUS

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Rig » Sat May 18, 2019 2:47 am

I'm just not as pessimistic as you are.

Ragyn
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Ragyn » Sat May 18, 2019 6:15 am

Lord Pe wrote:
Elysia wrote:It can be a positive thing, but it can also warp a clan's rp into something it never was, with older players coming back and thinking "hell no".

Imagine people locusting into Sword and Hand and insta-turning it into a clan that submitted to Seanchan. That wouldn't do any justice to the older players. Sure, at some point people have been absent for so long, you can say "well, then they should have read forums or played", but it can potentially move very quickly. Now imagine if it was a group of Seanchan players who did this and you have a whole new problem with conflicting agendas, which far exceeds the supposed problem of what any individual can pull off in multiple clans. Hence why individuals are essentially harmless.



To my main point: whats to stop a group of oh say morat'torm council from gaining control of two or 3 ls clans and shaping it as they please doing whatever thet can get away with. Another scenario using the council position to help sway toward a heron on a cityhead that your fav alt and buddies do a lot.


I think Ely already answered your question. Council are just the administrators, they don't hold any additional power, so if the clan itself don't want their "agenda shaped" by X councilman, they just tell him to shut up or if he sways them to his side then it is obviously the will of the clan. So your argument doesn't really make any sense in so far as limiting Council players, but more to limiting clanned alts owned per player.

Rodger
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:41 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Rodger » Sat May 18, 2019 10:24 am

In my limited experience just posting that council do not have addition power/sway then other masters would be fine then.

Some council I've interacted with certainly don't believe this is the case...

SS always worked fine without council, DS hasn't had any issues that I'm aware of - you can have squabbles among masters but always get worked out.

Ragyn
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Ragyn » Sat May 18, 2019 11:08 am

Think its up to the different clans to police their own council rules. Some clans have or had rules where councils or masters would count as 2 votes towards clanning or declanning and such, I know Gaidin used to be like that a fair few years back. Most, if not all, the clans I'm in the Council are just the people in charge of the rankings, awarding, coming up with quests and such. And they'll sit in judgement if someone mails in a complaint about a clanmember, if it can be worked out within the clan, else it gets taken up by the Immortals. So Council are basically the administration and HR department.

Cosmo
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Cosmo » Sat May 18, 2019 11:17 am

I personally think people can and do abuse their power between alts/clans. However, I'm not sure limiting council is likely to fix that except maybe where clans are active. Like if you're filling a council role someone else wants when you have like 5 council positions its probably a good idea to step aside and let those others have a turn. I think the abuse aspect comes down to staff not actually punishing players for it and the abuse can happen without the player being council (no voting players they don't like for no IC reason, not following core RP, generally being a dick, etc.). I also don't subscribe to the idea that a lot of these things have to be proven through some kind of blatant admission or just because no specific names/words were mentioned. Or even worse, when the whole clan backs them and endorses their behaviour as acceptable.

In terms of clans having fresh RP and changing over time. That's fine, but it should never go so far against the grain as to be fundamentally opposed to the world Robert Jordan created. For example, Defenders should never hang out with Dragonsworn or form alliances with the White Tower. White Tower should never make friends with Seanchan/Amador. Male Channelers should never be considered friendly chaps you have tea parties with. There's no such thing as a lightside friendly trolloc.

There are certain things that cannot change because in the books they would simply never happen. If you are trying to change these things, then you are not RPing but trying to create your own world that doesn't belong in Robert Jordan's world.

Ragyn
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:50 am

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Ragyn » Sat May 18, 2019 11:59 am

Or even worse, when the whole clan backs them and endorses their behaviour as acceptable

I mean if they have the blessing of their clan to do what they are doing, there isn't really any abuse is there? Seems to me the issue the OP had was that Councilfolk might go behind their clan to do stuff that presumably would benefit their other Councilalt in another clan.

Elysia
Posts: 5124
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:29 pm

Re: limiting council per player

Postby Elysia » Sat May 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Ragyn wrote:Most, if not all, the clans I'm in the Council are just the people in charge of the rankings, awarding, coming up with quests and such. And they'll sit in judgement if someone mails in a complaint about a clanmember, if it can be worked out within the clan, else it gets taken up by the Immortals. So Council are basically the administration and HR department.


This reflects my experience too. It seems to happen very rarely that I have to remind a clan that councillors are just equals with an admin tag. If a council appears to have a greater say, it's because of respect extended to them by other players. Either because they are old as nails or better pkers or whatever other reason that got them said respect.


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