Borderland banned gear change

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Cosmo
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Cosmo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:30 am

And that's up to Mayene to enforce the laws of Mayene in.. Mayene.

Benito
Posts: 308
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:41 pm

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Benito » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:05 am

Anor wrote:Back to the real railroaded discussion. This isn't purely a seanchan issue as seen by others having the same issues that are not seanchan. This is one in game clan that has the ability to cut off character progression by limiting access to QP. They know this and are using it to flex on people that play the game differently to the way they like. What we have is a major part of the game, gaining QP, being gatekept by 1 group of people. The point here is that this should not be acceptable and abusers of this should be held accountable.

How is it still this shocking to you that RP is about making choices and that choices entail limitations?

Cosmo
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Cosmo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:53 am

Like when you choose to be a Shienaran Lancer and you're limited to only policing people in Shienar?

Enok
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Enok » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:01 am

Cosmo wrote:As already discussed in detail and clarified by staff, you can't warrant for that. You will also find the warranting rules specifically mention that someone attacking you due to faceoff is also not grounds for warranting them.

For example, if I engaged Dixon when I actually intended to engage Reyne, but faceoff.. Dixon still cannot warrant me.


Warranting Rules.
1. You can warrant for any attack on your person anywhere in the mud, provided this doesn't breach any of the following rules.
2. You can warrant for any breaking of your nation's laws, provided these are in line with these rules.

3. You can not warrant people for being grouped with a wanted, or for defending someone they are grouped with if they are aiding their group members in self-defense (face-off engagements). This includes their immediate retaliation and pursuit, until the point you inform them you were in error while attempting to serve a warrant.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong (second language here) but doesn't this say that, using your example, you cannot warrant Dixon for defending Reyne?

4. If someone fulfills the pre-set conditions for a pardon, you must pardon.


Immortal intervention will be limited to extreme circumstances involving player abuse of the warrant system. In the event that this is needed, the punishment will be harsh. Clans are encouraged to police their members accordingly - failure to do so may lead to punishment for not only the player guilty of the abuse, but also those who allowed the abuse to happen.


I can't imagine the rules were written to facilitate murder. If you choose to murder people as part of your RP there will absolutely be consequences. In my opinion, your way of interpreting the rules circumvents the whole idea of factions. You're an invading army. The fact that staff chose to remove your coded character color doesn't change that. I also don't believe that seanchan characters belong in Fal Dara. It's horrible RP considering the timeline. If this was after the final battle and everything was hunky dory then fine, but it's not.

Here's the lancer/sushi deal:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7672

6) Any Seanchan army member who proves to be too much of a threat to our allies elsewhere will be addressed with the Seanchan army leadership, with necessary action taken up to removal of their welcome in our lands. To make this very clear, this does not preclude Seanchan who same-side down south from coming north, but if there is a habit of griefing people down south, or reports of fighting bleeding to the north, we will respond.


Do you qualify, Cosmo? I can see how you would interpret this in your favor, but ultimately it's a lancer decision. I guess it's a problem that you're the leadership mentioned in the treaty ;)

Cosmo
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Cosmo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:24 am

Enok wrote:
Warranting Rules.
1. You can warrant for any attack on your person anywhere in the mud, provided this doesn't breach any of the following rules.
2. You can warrant for any breaking of your nation's laws, provided these are in line with these rules.

3. You can not warrant people for being grouped with a wanted, or for defending someone they are grouped with if they are aiding their group members in self-defense (face-off engagements). This includes their immediate retaliation and pursuit, until the point you inform them you were in error while attempting to serve a warrant.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong (second language here) but doesn't this say that, using your example, you cannot warrant Dixon for defending Reyne?

4. If someone fulfills the pre-set conditions for a pardon, you must pardon.


Immortal intervention will be limited to extreme circumstances involving player abuse of the warrant system. In the event that this is needed, the punishment will be harsh. Clans are encouraged to police their members accordingly - failure to do so may lead to punishment for not only the player guilty of the abuse, but also those who allowed the abuse to happen.


This clearly means that if I type 'k reyne' and hit Dixon because they are grouped, neither of us can claim this as a reason to warrant the other because we didn't mean to hit the other. It's a rule made to account for a game mechanic.

It also means that if in the heat of battle Dixon decides to retaliate because I actually attacked him unintentionally, I still can't warrant him. However, if I inform him he was not the intended target and he continues to chase me/try kill me knowing it was due to faceoff, then I can warrant him for that.

I think its also a bit rich to call me a murderer for killing Marath'damane. Is a *oL a murderer for killing an Aes Sedai? How about a Defender for killing a Winged Guard?

What you have to understand is that the other people you group with have political affiliations, warrants and enemies of their own. Being grouped with them outside your home nation does not provide them with immunity. They could be an Aes Sedai, but they could also be a wanted murderer in Illian, or a Dragonsworn or whoever. I could be a Defender killing a Companion or a *oL killing an Aes Sedai. Everyone with a political affiliation will generally have people that are warring or want to kill them for some RP ish reason.

A better RPish question to ask might be why would a Shienaran Lancer get involved in southern politics? Their whole RP is that they do not get involved and focus on the blight/shadow. They understand everyone kills each other down south but they stay out of it and allow everyone up north provided they keep the peace. Why would a Shienaran Lancer go smobbing in Mayene with a bunch of Aes Sedai when they should be fighting the shadow up north?

If a Shienaran Lancer saw one political enemy attacking another who they were grouped with or whatever, to be quite honest they might try mediate but I honestly can't see them RPishly getting involved. They wouldn't want trouble with the *oL or Companions or whoever.

Enok
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Enok » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:07 am

Cosmo wrote:This clearly means that if I type 'k reyne' and hit Dixon because they are grouped, neither of us can claim this as a reason to warrant the other because we didn't mean to hit the other. It's a rule made to account for a game mechanic.


You probably know better than me, but I dare say it doesn't clearly say what you want it to mean.

Cosmo wrote:I think its also a bit rich to call me a murderer for killing Marath'damane. Is a *oL a murderer for killing an Aes Sedai? How about a Defender for killing a Winged Guard?


I guess it depends on perspective, but I would say yes. It's war, but it's still murder. And again, if I'm allied with defenders, and you, let's say a mayener, kill one of my allies, you would not be welcome in my city. Logically that is.

Cosmo wrote:A better RPish question to ask might be why would a Shienaran Lancer get involved in southern politics? Their whole RP is that they do not get involved and focus on the blight/shadow. They understand everyone kills each other down south but they stay out of it and allow everyone up north provided they keep the peace. Why would a Shienaran Lancer go smobbing in Mayene with a bunch of Aes Sedai when they should be fighting the shadow up north?


The why isn't up to you to decide. Lancers came south to help cleanse the shadow in the books. There are multiple reasons why lancers would help friends and allies.

It's hard to discern what is bookish RP and what is RL logic in this thread, but if you're killing members of an ally I see no reason why you wouldn't get banned/wanted/excluded until you no longer do that. In our wotmud world, the seanchan empire are invited to fight the shadow by the shienaran lancers. On very specific terms. Again, in my opinion, you can't go around killing people and expect centuries old allies to just roll over and go "Well geez, you attacked an ally in my presence and now I have to allow you to enter my city because it's the right thing to do". That's not right.

They wouldn't want trouble with the *oL or Companions or whoever.


This is why lancers reserve the right to ban individuals instead of a blanket warrant of all seanchan.

Cosmo
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Cosmo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:20 am

I think you need to rethink your definition of murder.

Here's an entire wiki page about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder

Enok
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 3:44 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Enok » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:23 am

You're definitely entitled to your opinion.

Cosmo
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:27 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby Cosmo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:36 am

Enok, it's actually not an opinion, it is fact.

Let me explain..

By your definition if a policeman shoots a criminal he's a murderer? The policeman is just doing his job. He is not acting unlawfully.

In the english language we also have different words for different killing scenarios (eg. manslaughter). Murder is very much illegal. Like person murders spouse/neighbour/boss/etc.

Policeman kills criminal for example, does not imply the policeman is guilty of anything merely that he is a killer/action taker. There may be a connotation attached to that I suppose as generally we hope police try not to kill people but its certainly a very different statement to the policeman is a murderer.

Soldier kills an enemy soldier is another great example. Is the soldier a murderer? I don't think any members of the military would be very happy with such a label.

Now lets consider when a Seanchan kills a Marath'damane. He is just doing his job, just as the policeman or soldier was doing their job.

In addition to this I should mention that in modern societies people are no longer entitled opinions, they are only entitled to what they can argue. Sound argument is typically founded on factual information and supporting evidence. I am confident there are many societies where people are still entitled (or at least believe they are) to hold archaic and misguided views but I also like to be optimistic and believe that the world is changing and all societies are becoming more progressive. Luckily, I do not have twitter yet though. Discord was a big step for me.

If you want to go around calling police/soldiers murderers in the real world I think you'll very quickly get yourself into a lot of trouble.

isabel
Posts: 617
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:19 am

Re: Borderland banned gear change

Postby isabel » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:49 am

You're talking like BGs were some different side altogether, unrelated to LS. SS aren't on the same level as Mayene or even Amador who are all allied LS clans. Many BGs would pking SS down south pre-merger when there wasn't north pk.

Our main RP is to fight the shadow, but we are also part of LS and SS was a common enemy. Just like DS was the common enemy for LS and SS. The reason SS could pk north even pre-merger was because of that common enemy, not becuase SS and BG shared some alliance.

Further, I think you dont' see at all that among LS clans, there is a great variety of approach towards Aes Sedai. It's a spectrum that goes from yin to yang completely. As you move through the Wot world, you pass through nations that regard Aes Sedai from outright hostility (Amador) to mistrust and caution (Tear I imagine) to curiosity and possible friendliness, to deep respect (all northern clans). So you can't keep one end of it alive (SS leashing channelers, and *oL being extremely hostile) and drop the other side (a number of LS clans being very pro-Tower while retaining their own sovereignty of course).

Same as RP varies even against the shadow - for a Defender, fighting off invasions into the city (from Mayene) will be more important than fighting the Shadow far north (and children in Tear may never have seen trollocs!) but that doesn't mean that Defenders don't ally with us when we are facing up against DS.

You completely fail to see all this because you would like to twist BG Rp into some kind of stand-offish RP that has nothing to do with the rest of LS. Elysia is right that BG aren't global police, but at the same time we also have a certain RP and certain rules.

Also you were pardoned as the k reyne wasn't a k paitar etc. Reading your posts it feels like far from being near instantly pardoned, you still have a warrant on you! Like I find myself typing who to check the wholist and see if you actually have been warranted all this time, going by your posts. :roll:


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