Three Years of Trump

... sit down, kick back and relax, and talk about anything that doesn't belong on one of the other forums.
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arkaza
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:17 pm

Three Years of Trump

Post by arkaza » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:14 am

FISA
Impeachment
Mockingbird
Epstein
Mossad
Carter page, CIA asset, CHS working for Ben Carson
Flynn Sentencing?
More Emails
James Corney Purgery
Fake Everything (matrix)
Halper
Lisa Page in London 2015
Misfud CIA CHS
Jeb Bush Superpac pays Fusion GPS
Scared in DC
PANIC in DC
Erik Prince on Ukraine
Wakkenhut - Academii
THINK-TANKS
Walls and Wara
Indictments - Arrests - Trafficking
DirectorWrayCover
MUH BARR IS BAD. Durham?????
John Mcain and Al'bagdadi
Mccain Foundation, CLINTON foundation
How do you Launder taxpayer money? See, Ukraine
95% pols Involved
Prince Andrew and where is BREXIT
$500 billion QE

Adam Sciff / LIDDLE KIDS INFANT MASSAGE FOUNDATION


## just scratching the surface... ##

Astolfo
Posts: 504
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: Lost in Space!

Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Astolfo » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:33 am

Wait till the second term, we ain't seen nothing yet!

Saal
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:02 pm

Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Saal » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:34 pm

I guess you can really run into Qanon brainwashees just about anywhere.

byrg
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Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by byrg » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:23 pm

I like llamas.

Sac
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Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:02 pm

Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Sac » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 pm

I think one of the biggest thing the news media seemed to have no clue of when Trump first got elected was that he made promises on the campaign trail that he intended to keep. He went through cabinet members so fast because he was going to run it like it was his company. So he'd go

PRESIDENT: "Hey Person_X have you got started on the wall yet?"
PERSON_X: "Oh, I'm working on it.There's so much preparation that has to be done, we probably can't start for a couple of years."
PRESIDENT: "I want is started by next week!"
PERSON_X: "That's impossible"
PRESIDENT: "I made promises to these people and I didn't say them just to go back on them like EVERY other president in your lifetime. If you can't get it done, I expect your resignation by the end of the day and I'll find someone who will."

And he probably had to have this conversation probably with EVERY single cabinet member who had a career in politics or the military because they all thought it would be the same old routine of making campaign promises to get elected and then cop out with "Before I was elected I didn't have all the information on that and I'm going to have to think it over with the information I have now received as president" or some such excuse to not work toward promises made that were never intended to keep. Then the democrats pushed hard on the Russian story and when they lost there the best thing they could have done with the majority congress was start passing bipartisan bills that helped all Americans and then taken credit for everything since they had the majority. So, what do they do? Their bright idea is impeach a president who promised to make America Great Again right as the United States' economic news, trade agreements, and involvement in that NATO fiasco have become the best it's been since the Finest Generation/Early Baby Boomers first joined the workforce, a period largely known for its prosperity for the country. So, knowing they need an open and shut case with smoking gun evidence to succeed after how well the country is actually doing in spite of their efforts to suppress the achievements this president has, which, I know (because I'm that old done), NOT A SINGLE PRESIDENT IN MY LIFE TIME has done in their first three years in office, THEY DECIDE TO GET AN ANONYMOUS WHISTLE-BLOWER WITH, WHAT IS LOOKING LIKE, A COMPLETE FRAME JOB STORY. Then after closed door hearings, the last thing you should do if you actually have enough verifiable evidence to impeach a president, and open door meetings broadcast live to the American voters that had people called to testify who, not only didn't seem to have any evidence to convict the president of wrong doing, is have one that emphasizes that Trump did a QUID PRO QUO with the Ukraine who when asked directly if the president denied aid said "NO, he said he specifically said he wanted nothing in return just for the Ukraine to investigate corruption" completely backstopping his emphatic opening statement that the president absolutely refused aid to the Ukraine unless they investigated his so called rival when Biden, and I'm going to be overly generous, has about a 0% chance of beating Trump in an election anyway. The democrats keep saying Trump is treating the dreamers horribly, and who is more of a dreamer than every democrat on those debate stages this fall?

Sac

Benito
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Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Benito » Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Sac wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 pm
PRESIDENT: "I made promises to these people and I didn't say them just to go back on them like EVERY other president in your lifetime. If you can't get it done, I expect your resignation by the end of the day and I'll find someone who will."
This is a fantastical narrative that you will have trouble connecting to anyone actually in his cabinet. The problem with the wall are multitude. There are legal necessities for construction and funding that Trump has tried to circumvent, and it's a bad solution to a problem that largely doesn't exist. For instance, must "illegal immigration" is from visa over-stay, rather than people coming across the border; immigrants commit crimes at lower rate than citizens; most drugs arrive through ports, rather than across the border; border crossings have largely been on the decline since 2009 or so; and building a wall in many of the sections that don't have it would cause ecological problems, included increased flood risk. It's also hugely unpopular among people who actually live at the border.

Trump's problem with his cabinet is that many of his choices were incompetents who, like him, are totally unsuited to running a functional government. Or, they do something he can't handle, which is express disagreement. Trump has done his best to surround himself with people who will let him live in a fantasy land. The grain of truth in what you're saying is, yes, Trump wants to run the country like a business. The problem is that he's run many of his own businesses in the ground and is largely interested in benefitting himself at the cost of everyone else. And when he doesn't run his businesses into the ground, they succeed because of fraud: just look to Trump University or the recent court order to pay $2million dollars in fines for a charity fraud.
Then the democrats pushed hard on the Russian story and when they lost there the best thing they could have done with the majority congress was start passing bipartisan bills that helped all Americans and then taken credit for everything since they had the majority.
The Mueller investigation discovered widespread Russian interference in the election, put people in jail, and seized (if I remember right) about $67 million in assets.
So, what do they do? Their bright idea is impeach a president who promised to make America Great Again right as the United States' economic news, trade agreements, and involvement in that NATO fiasco have become the best it's been since the Finest Generation/Early Baby Boomers first joined the workforce, a period largely known for its prosperity for the country.
What the country is seeing (in a process that's happened for forty years and presidents from both parties) is increasing inequality, to the point that we are approaching Gilded Age levels of inequality. "The economy" is healthy, but that's largely gains for the people at the top. Wages continue to decline for average people in America while the cost of healthcare and housing continue to skyrocket. Trump's tax cuts only made things worse in that regard, since companies have largely spent their money on buybacks rather than for their workers.

Tolveor
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Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Tolveor » Sun Dec 15, 2019 12:52 am

You forgot the "I like beer" dude in your summary arkaza. I found him entertaining

Reyne
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Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Reyne » Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:56 am

Told myself I wasn't gonna post but I can't help myself apparently.

The government is *not* a business and shouldn't be run as such. Decades of bullshit privatizations and trickle down have resulted in a broken economy that only works for the rich. Enough already. It empirically does not work. Any economist still shilling for it is just bought off by those who benefit from those policies.

Econ 101: there exist necessary goods and services that are not profitable to provide, or function as natural monopolies and aren't subject to competitive forces. Therefore, the state provides them. Example: the military. "The government as a business" model is some Ayn Rand claptrap that flies in the face of even basic conventional economics of the free market. Turning a profit is not the government's purpose.

The private market doesn't exist without the state providing those things. Example: Amazon can't deliver you anything without a national roadway network, transportation infrastructure, and its sweetheart contracts with USPS that allowed it to scale up so fast.

Another Econ 101 example: the government provides rail subsidies not because "socialism" but because many private businesses utilize the railways at some point or another when goods are shipped. If the real actual costs of shipping were imposed on them then many would fold or would have to raise their prices significantly. That means it is a straight government subsidy to private business. As is basically any infrastructure spending.

If the government wanted to stop subsidizing the railways and turn a profit to "run like a business" then it could but then the private market would take a beating as consumer goods take a fairly decent uptick in prices basically overnight. Who would that benefit?!

Does "run like a business" maybe mean just cutting out administrative bloat? - but that's kind of one of the most naive positions I can imagine for a grown adult to take. I'd almost want to ask if they've even worked an actual job in the real world. Yeah, there's waste in the public sector. There's just as much BS in the private sector except in that case the people in charge aren't held accountable to anyone but their majority shareholders (who are often just themselves). Don't even try to tell me about 'competition in the market ensures their competence' because uh, it doesn't whatsoever - especially not when they can just take multi-million dollar severance packages and try again in another company after laying off thousands of employees. *cough* SEARS *cough* Toys R US *cough* Bain Capital *cough* *cough*

So, run like a business... Yeah I guess that's exactly what Trump is doing! He's running what other people have built into the ground while extracting as much value for himself and his friends as he can and when it all goes boom he just walks away with millions and lets other people pick up the pieces.

Benito wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:38 pm
What the country is seeing (in a process that's happened for forty years and presidents from both parties) is increasing inequality, to the point that we are approaching Gilded Age levels of inequality. "The economy" is healthy, but that's largely gains for the people at the top. Wages continue to decline for average people in America while the cost of healthcare and housing continue to skyrocket. Trump's tax cuts only made things worse in that regard, since companies have largely spent their money on buybacks rather than for their workers.
This.

So tired of seeing people point to an overinflated market as some kind of evidence that things are going well. Then when the inevitable crash comes I'm sure it'll get blamed on foreigners as per the usual tactics.

Trump was right when he called Obama out on using BS metrics to say the economy was doing well, then he got elected and used those exact same BS metrics himself. Who cares about absolute number of jobs when people are working 2-3 of them and still can't make ends meet? Who cares what the SP500 is doing when you might go bankrupt due to medical bills at any moment (even with insurance)?

Yeah I am aware that pharmaceuticals (for example) are doing a booming business as they crank prices on necessary medicines. I'm aware that Sempra Energy's stock continues to shoot up even as their utilities cause rolling blackouts due to unwillingness to spend necessary money on their infrastructure upkeep.

I'm absolutely aware that these massive conglomerates and business interests get tax cut after tax cut after tax cut which they immediately go burn on record stock buy backs (which were illegal when boomers where entering the job market, just by the way) while my costs of living continue to rise far out of pace with my wage increases.
right as the United States' economic news, trade agreements, and involvement in that NATO fiasco have become the best it's been since the Finest Generation/Early Baby Boomers
Sorry but anyone paying attention could tell you China has been playing the US like a goddamn fiddle and Trump just says "things are going good" and then "things are going bad!" and repeat over and over ad nauseum without any actual progress either way. Meanwhile Xi Xinping is laughing his ass off as the US' diplomatic flailings deliver China more beneficial trade deals.
Then the democrats pushed hard on the Russian story and when they lost there the best thing they could have done with the majority congress was start passing bipartisan bills that helped all Americans and then taken credit for everything since they had the majority.
Hello - the House of Representatives is Democrat majority and they *have* been passing bipartisan bills supported by GOP voters (according to polling) but the Senate, which is GOP majority, just kills every single bill. Mitch McConnell brags about doing so. He literally brags about his office being a graveyard for legislation. The guy says he likes to be called the 'Grim Reaper' of legislation. How in the hell is that the Democrat's fault?
THEY DECIDE TO GET AN ANONYMOUS WHISTLE-BLOWER WITH, WHAT IS LOOKING LIKE, A COMPLETE FRAME JOB STORY.
Every single person who testified under oath said Trump did crimes. Every person saying he did not won't testify under oath. That should tell you all you need to know.

In order to believe this is a total frame job you'd have to believe that all the people testifying under oath are lying.
Last edited by Reyne on Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:19 am, edited 23 times in total.

Reyne
Posts: 1033
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Reyne » Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:09 am

Sorry for the double post but this one needs its own:
not only didn't seem to have any evidence to convict the president of wrong doing, is have one that emphasizes that Trump did a QUID PRO QUO
This is total misinformation being run by the right wing. You don't need to have a successful quid pro quo to be guilty of solicitation of a bribe. If you try to bribe a traffic officer who stopped you and they don't take the bribe, you're not magically off the hook for the crime of solicitation of a bribe.

If you try to commit a crime you don't need to successfully pull it off for it to have still been a crime. Period. The fact that this even has to be explained to grown adults is a bit fantastical to me. Just because the Ukrainians balked and didn't do what he asked them doesn't mean he didn't still attempt to solicit a bribe. Even just the asking constitutes a crime. That is, in of itself, solicitation of a bribe. Then, after the news story was run he tried to cover his ass and released the aid.

He's constantly bumbling from one crime to the next and so are his children who just apparently run policy up in the White House now because I guess that's how it is now.

Look I don't like the Democrats all that much and yeah a lot of cable news channels tell fibs but you should really do yourself a favor and stop watching Fox News constantly. It's propaganda. All of your talking points are basically verbatim from Fox's drivel. Like:
"NO, he said he specifically said he wanted nothing in return just for the Ukraine to investigate corruption"
You're referring to Sondland's testimony, yes? Where he says "yeah no one said the words USE BRIBERY or USE EXTORTION or USE QUID PRO QUO" which was soundclipped out for Fox News viewers and where they ignore the later part of the testimony where Sondland says "he definitely knew what was up, I definitely knew what was up, Pence knew it, Bolton knew it, we ALL KNEW IT and it was an attempt to get political favors regarding the Bidens in exchange for releasing of the aid?" That testimony?

Hell just read a transcript of Sondland's testimony for yourself because everyone who wasn't on the Fox News train heard it and said "oh damn that's as smoking gun as it gets."

e: Frankly it is amazing. After years and decades of "moral majority" horsesh*t and "law and order" horseshi*t, the Republicans show their true face and reveal that they don't at all give a flying f*** about the nation, its laws, its principles, or any of that as long as they can get a sick own in on 'da libs.' Emoluments Clause thrown to the wind. Constitution itself thrown to the wind. Defense of the worst kinds of nepotism and blatant corruption. Open praise of dictators and war criminals. Open derision of the courts. Governor Huckabee is even arguing that Trump deserves a 3rd term!! Sad.

Serious question I like to ask all Trump supporters I meet:
Sac wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:01 pm
suppress the achievements this president has, which, I know (because I'm that old done)
What has he actually done for you? What are his achievements actually? Can you name one concrete tangible thing that he has done that has helped you personally?

Reyne
Posts: 1033
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:46 am

Re: Three Years of Trump

Post by Reyne » Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:48 am

Extra $22 billion in defense spending, same week as cutting food stamps for people and making it more difficult to qualify for cold weather aid

Truly a moral majority of upstanding people and not at all just a death cult.

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